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[Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Questions and discussion about creating aircraft. Flight dynamics, 3d models, cockpits, systems, animation, textures.

Paint on, or cut out passenger windows?

Poll ended at Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:50 pm

Paint on (Livery)
13
37%
Cut out (3D)
22
63%
 
Total votes : 35

[Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Octal450 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:50 pm

Hi Pilots and Livery Designers,
We want to know your opinion. Should we leave the windows cut out in the mesh (passenger windows)? Or, should be have the windows painted on like the A33X has?

So, go ahead an vote! You have 3 days.

Kind Regards,
Josh, on behalf of the Airbus Development Team, IDG

PS: the outcome of this poll may not reflect our decision, we wanted to get a grasp on the opinions.
Last edited by Octal450 on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby V12 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:59 pm

IMHO, for model "weight" is livery with painted windows better than cut outs. Boolean subtract operation in 3D tools produces very large amount of polygons.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby merspieler » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:13 pm

For cout outs, against painted windows
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:28 am

For those voting for cut out windows, be aware that it will mean that it makes it far more difficult to improve the mesh: cut outs tend to cause shading issues and artifacts, apparently. And they make the model far more complex, and thus reduce performance.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby iamzac » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:23 am

V12 wrote in Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:59 pm:IMHO, for model "weight" is livery with painted windows better than cut outs. Boolean subtract operation in 3D tools produces very large amount of polygons.


legoboyvdlp wrote in Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:28 am:For those voting for cut out windows, be aware that it will mean that it makes it far more difficult to improve the mesh: cut outs tend to cause shading issues and artifacts, apparently. And they make the model far more complex, and thus reduce performance.


Is there any measured evidence that the extra polygons from the windows would produce an obvious drop in performance for the average user?
Especially now when CaptB's work will reduce much of the complexity of the external model?

In my subjective experience with planes that have both simple and complex 3d bodies the scenery and the complexity of the aircraft's systems are the main resource hogs, extra windows, antennas or interiors don't seem to visibly affect performance with my (bellow) average nvidia geforce gtx 950 which is barely used when I focus the view only on the current version of the plane with no complex scenery.
And this is valid in both flightgear and xplane.
Also this plane is one of the few commercial planes in FlightGear that has an interior and windows, it would be a shame to lose them.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Thorsten » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:21 am

Is there any measured evidence that the extra polygons from the windows would produce an obvious drop in performance for the average user?


As usual, it's a question of the actual number.

If you go from 10.000 to 50.000, you can't see a performance impact in any case.

If you go from 10.000.000 to 50.000.000, you probably will floor your framerate.

You might want to be wary if your mesh file grows beyond 20-30 MB.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby DFaber » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:05 am

iamzac wrote in Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:23 am:Is there any measured evidence that the extra polygons from the windows would produce an obvious drop in performance for the average user?
Especially now when CaptB's work will reduce much of the complexity of the external model?


You can test yourself. Fly in Multiplayer and go near a 707 or Tu-154. These are great and complex Models, but when you come near them, loading of the Model will bring even the strongest PC near to a halt. Lots of Users choose to delete these Aircraft from their folders when flying online. And what will you do with different Window layouts on Liveries, e.G on freighters? Patch them all over again?
I think there is no benefit from cut out windows, which you can't get with shaders or a simple overlay mesh of windows.

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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby japanair772 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:09 am

Very Annoying with Windows on Paintkit when Making liveries!
:)
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby D-ECHO » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:20 am

Why is it annoying to have windows on the paintkit when making liveries?
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Octal450 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:42 pm

^^^
Just hide the layer.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:08 pm

japanair772 wrote in Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:09 am:Very Annoying with Windows on Paintkit when Making liveries!
:)

floodfill doesn't work? ;)
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:10 pm

it0uchpods wrote in Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:42 pm:Just hide the layer.

kinda hard to do when one's chosen paint doesn't do layers ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Octal450 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:21 pm

The paintkit has layers, so you just can do that.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Octal450 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:02 pm

Just want to let you guys know: even if we vote to keep them cut out, we WILL NOT be modelling a full interior, or providing interior views, this is flight simulator, not passenger simulator. So, it will look weird being to see through the windows thru to the other side of the plane, with only some small seats, and floors barely visible.

And, at (probably) a frame rate hit on low end systems.

I am personally for painting them on.

Please note: livery designers, please state your opinions here, I am curious.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby LesterBoffo » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:35 am

I seem to recall reading that you can make 3D window holes for less frame rate hit than you can for using an alpha mask for the same effect. The problem with Boolean cuts is that sometimes the Boolean algorithm isn't as polygon efficient as just manually planning the fuse cuts as you are extruding and mirroring each half of the fuselage. You still have to make a 'step' and widen the interior apertures individually and blend them into the wall surface if you're going to model passenger seating views. By this time you're already committed from the inception to making a detailed passenger compartment and might as well spend some time and polygons to get it looking good.
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