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A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Thorsten » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:08 pm

But I've have to change the way revisions are handled, or my update system will be constantly giving a red Out of Date! message. The user could just press remind me later, but I don't think that is good.


Well, you don't need any for the milestones - dependent on how stable you get them of course.

If most of your day to day commits are bugfixes for bugs older than two weeks, the whole concept doesn't make any sense. But if most commits are either new developments or fixes to things you broke with the new developments during the last few days, then a two week period of no new developments is getting you pretty stable.

Personally, I think you're not doing yourself a favour trying to make users pull from the devel repository because for every bug you fix there you introduce a new one (at least I do) - that should be reserved for developers and approved testers who have the experience to know what they should be looking for, with bug reports from anyone else dismissed.
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Octal450 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:25 pm

No no -- I mean, the update dialog will appear when it's out of date. I'd have to modify this.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby wlbragg » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:38 pm

I think the MPMap can't be used as reference to see people's interest in this project cause just like me, that I always fly offline.

I agree with this. I rarely fly online.

I don't fly airliners much right now because I am into my own development of different types of aircraft. But that doesn't mean I don't want to see your detailed version continue to fruition. I know in the back of my mind it's there and being perfected. When I decide to cruise in an airline it will most certainly be yours because I am all about the details.

Also don't forget about the future FG user that doesn't know we exist yet. Even if there was a current lack of interest in an airline with this level of detail, that doesn't mean there always will be.

Like others have said, I think you have to do this for yourself. Over time, others will always appreciate your hard work.
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby D-ECHO » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:18 pm

Can't write a long text like it seems to be done here :D but just got to say that I enjoy every feature addition from your site and that I am happy to learn and get deeper into how the A320/330 really works with every new feature :D
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby DeltaSVEN » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:05 pm

Dear Josh,

I think the IDG project is uncomparable to any other of its kind. It takes our flight experience to another level. It's easy and smart and we all can learn a whole lot from the planes and their background. As me and many others here fly in this simulation to learn something new, this became exactly our type of aircraft. What I want to say: Your project has a lot of potential! Please take it further, we would appreciate it.
Of course, you can't simulate everything on these few planes but thats why there are hundreds of other projects around in FlightGear. This variety is the greatest advantage of this simulator in my opinion and we should keep it.

With this in mind,

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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Octal450 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:28 pm

Thank guys for the support -- which I can see is still very much alive. :)

I'm happy when others are happy, I guess I hate being selfish! :D

So, Back to work...

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby flycanarias » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:05 am

So, although many people have commented on this, I want to share my opinion on the threads question.
I can only agree with Kristogratia. FGFS needs more of study-level airliners. This would make FGFS a real alternative to FSX, P3D and XP11.
The work is hard, I know, it is not that easy to develop this airliners, but it pays off.
About the decreasing number of users, maybe another solution would be to provide materials such as handbooks, checklists and FCOMs specified for the A320 or the A330. This would maybe help new users to get along with more complex features such as FMC and navigation.
In my opinion, a complex aircraft is amazing as soon as you are in command of it, meaning to be able to fly and know all necessary features. It is just a learning process, and this should maybe be supported by you as the developers. Simply include documentation to help new pilots, and a study-level aircraft is less frightening to them. This would be my idea to help increasing the number of users.
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby bugman » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:01 am

flycanarias wrote in Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:05 am:About the decreasing number of users...


Maybe some statistics would be useful here:


I don't think you need to worry about the number of users. Also don't forget, the aircraft and FG are developed as a hobby, so "selling" this to users is really not a priority ;)

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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Hooray » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:34 am

To be fair, we're deluding ourselves if we think that a handful of hobbyist aircraft developers can even come close to doing a "study level" simulation of aircraft systems on any "modern" airliner - even doing that for comparatively simple GA aircraft is a ton of work - and FSX/XP are having the same problem, that is why the corresponding FSX/XP payware is so popular: it takes literally a team of dedicated experts with access to tons of internal information (including actual pilots type-rated on the aircraft) to come up with a plausible simulation, and even then, many features are likely to still be missing.

Just look at what the shuttle folks have been doing, and the kind of people involved in that - even if you have a similar background, you are unlikely to create a simulation that complex, yet, it is obviously making the shuttle more popular, and not less popular - as a matter of fact, it seems that new contributors like GinGin are actually getting involved because of of the very complexity of the simulated systems.

At the end of the day, the question obviously is what kind of users people are hoping to attract with their work - but most people using other sims and 3rd party addons are doing so for a reason: they want more realism, including high-fidelity simulations of all systems on board.

Realistically speaking, that's a mammoth taks, and one that won't even be finished if you could get 20 volunteers on board for another 5 years.

Then again, I do realize that many people around here are very young, so that the real purpose of threads like this one might just be getting some recognition and motivation ouf of this. However, I suggest to treat carefully when using the words "study level" - if in doubt, I suggest to check out one of these payware addons for other sims, or actual pilot training software (even just CBTs), to see for yourself what "study level" really means - and why having this discussion is rather pointless. Just ask the shuttle folks how much time went into that project, how complex the simulation already is and if they consider it finished, let alone "study-level".
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby GinGin » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:15 pm

Your work is really great, you should continue it .

As I told you, I really appreciate to train on. Nice flight model, many functions already available.

Don't loose faith, and I am sure that if someone in FG community wants to enjoy a deep level of fidelity AC, IDG one will be on of the first choice ;)

Keep up the good work
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Octal450 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:47 pm

Thanks all.

FCOM will not be distributed, because of GPL. But we plan to write a manual.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby CaptB » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:04 pm

This is how I see it: You are in a transition period between a very basic (and incorrect in many ways) representation of the Airbus and a more complex one, this is the period you appeal to neither audiences, because it might not be simple enough anymore for some users who just like to pick it up and fly arcade style and not yet complex enough for people looking for high complexity. Just carry on, the journey is more important than the destination, as some say.
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Octal450 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:27 pm

transition period between a very basic (and incorrect in many ways) representation of the Airbus and a more complex one

No, not at all. We are nearing completion of the main systems, except FMGS stuff. It is not basic at all, and is still the most complex airliner in FGFS (If I do say so myself).

Sorry -- buy by stating such a fact -- you haven't flown my Airbus' yet ;)

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby CaptB » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 pm

it0uchpods wrote in Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:27 pm:
Sorry -- buy by stating such a fact -- you haven't flown my Airbus' yet ;)
Josh


Actually I have used it last week or so, and while it's true that it is complex by FG standards, it is not yet at a stage where a normal user expecting complexity and a good representation of the systems would be satisfied. For instance, had I not been aware that the the model is WIP, I'd be immediately put off by the fact that the behaviour when performing a dark and cold( no external power, just APU ) seems incorrect. Also, no MCDU RTE and so on. I could probably find more of these things.

Regardless of what I say above, I think you are doing a good job and having good progress, it's just the project is not at the stage you imagine it is.
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Octal450 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:54 pm

You can use external power and/or air..... It works fine!!!!

FMGS is going to be overhauled soon, and it will be added.

But you have to look past that, at the quality of what I'd simulated so far.

Its by no means a basic model.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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