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A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby CaptB » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:09 pm

it0uchpods wrote in Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:54 pm:You can use external power and/or air..... It works fine!!!!



You are right, I downloaded the recent version and startup from BAT(No GPU) works correctly.

Its by no means a basic model.


I never stated so, I stated that it is in transition.
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Octal450 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:49 pm

OK, GPU startup has worked for almost 8 months now... so....

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Kristogratia » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:56 am

I found the GPU and ASU don't available if the aircraft hasn't move yet. I have to move a bit using pushback to make them available.
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby japanair772 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:32 am

:D
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Thorsten » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:37 am

To be fair, we're deluding ourselves if we think that a handful of hobbyist aircraft developers can even come close to doing a "study level" simulation of aircraft systems on any "modern" airliner


Admittedly I don't really know what a "study level" simulation is supposed to be. I googled the term, and while there didn't seem to be any official definition, closest I found was here:

"I feel an SLS should be something that pilots can get hold of, use real world manuals to fly the addon and the addon will respond exactly as a real world aircraft/FFS would."

Let's first note that there is no simulation that will 'respond exactly as a real world aircraft' would. A real world flies in exact physics, a simulation flies in coefficient schemes to make the computation feasible. Most of the time the differences are small, but I have no trouble coming up with a situation in which they grow large (my favourite example is passing through an externally generated shockwave).

Second, the real experiences always provides all sorts of cues which the simulation can not provide (easily) - that starts with exact force feedback and ends with zero gravity - in the real Shuttle it is eminently easy to deduce you've just had a three engine failure because you are weightless - in the simulation you don't have this most important and obvious cue.

Third, to the degree that you can patch software of devices in reality, the simulation would have to run an emulator for the real software (which usually happens to be proprietary) - but then it would also have to provide simulated sensor info for the real software.

So even the goal that 'you can always do what the manual says' simply can't be realized in principle.

What definition is meant then?

Something where the simulation prepares you well for the real thing in terms of control experience and procedures?

We seem to have quite some aircraft like this (maybe not airliners though).

Something that doesn't break when you start poking at it or intentionally create an off-nominal situation?

To give an example for poking - say I have a device in the cockpit which I can switch on or off - perhaps a screen, or a gyro. That device has a power consumption. If I switch it on and off while looking at the bus voltage very closely, will I see that the voltage changes - and will I be able to deduce the rough power consumption from the voltage loss?

Obviously, there has to be plenty of stuff 'underneath' what you usually see in the surface to make a simulation even moderately poke-proof.

So maybe before discussing whether any particular aircraft is 'study level' we should define what is meant by these words?
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby SVW » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 am

Great to see you're working on the Airbus. The more complex the better in my opinion. I don't care about liveries and eye-candy textures at all. My problem is that the required v2017.3.1 doesn't work with VATSIM, see here: https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33333, so I can't use your plane yet. Turnable voice com knobs, a fully working MCDU and a transponder would be a must for me.
Keep up the work, mucho appreciated!
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby merspieler » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:26 am

Keep on... You're already have made the best and most advanced freeware A3XX System I've ever seen.

I always wanted an freeware (open source is even better) A320 that is as realistic as the once you have to pay 50 to 100 bugs for (despite the money you have to spend for the fs, running that plane)... you made this dream come true.

So do your thing and show them that it can go the other way as well.
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Wecsje » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:39 am

@SVW

I fly the IDG aircraft daily on VATSIM (with FG 2017.3.1)

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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Octal450 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:38 pm

Coming soon @SVW :)

@Kristogratia
Just set parking brake. Then its available.

The for support

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby CaptB » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:45 pm

Thorsten wrote in Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:37 am:So maybe before discussing whether any particular aircraft is 'study level' we should define what is meant by these words?


I agree with you. These definitions are too broad to mean anything in particular and are sometimes used as marketing slogans to distinguish more complex commercial aircraft addons from the basic ones. A PC flight simulator aircraft that can be flown at least according to normal procedures and by the numbers, or close to that is good enough for me, whether that is study or not... I don't dare to judge.

While we should try to aim high and set goals, I personally think that nothing we do can be on par with the real life simulators which pilots use to train for their certification on a type, not to mention the real thing.
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Octal450 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:09 pm

I agree.

I think study level means you need to read up on procedures to use it, all real procedures (normal and non-normal) work the same in the model, have no dummy switches (all switches do something), and to have an FDM which closely matches the real thing.

Obviously we are not there yet, but that is the goal.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Thorsten » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:16 pm

have no dummy switches (all switches do something)


That's not even true in the real Shuttle :mrgreen:

(there's systems for systems which were originally planned but never installed)
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Re: A3XX: We need your support and opinions (please read)

Postby Octal450 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:36 pm

You know what I mean... no switches that work in the real craft but not in the sim. (But even a non-used switch I would give a dummy clickspot, as the user COULD press it.)

:mrgreen:

Kind Regards,
Josh
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