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F8E related, last update by trenk

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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby swampthing » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:04 pm

My personal opinion is do away with Rembrandt as the only way of lighting and Rembrandt doesn't work at all for many users and it doesn't work for me either. ALS to me is far better. Regarding the Crusader though this is much to nice of a model to disappear. I have tried the updated version and I was glad to finally get to fly it, sadly I can fly 15 other aircraft up to a aircraft carrier and pick the carrier up through MP but never with the Crusader. Why is this? I know its off topic but since we are here I thought I would ask for that problem to be addressed. I also hope that this problem can be resolved with a little more class. How must it look for new users to come on the forums and always see this type of arguing? Perhaps when it gets this heated it should go to PM. It is quite a turn off to see argument after argument, all of the way to "where did you fly today" And I'm not saying the two of you but wow there are some condescending people on the Flightgear forum. So many extra comments added to discussions that are not needed. So what do we get? Flame wars everywhere.
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Josh_grtuxteam » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:58 pm

Thorsten wrote in Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:37 pm:
About GRTUX models it was NEVER said and DONE that Rembrandt was turn on in-sim.


Let me quote Jean Pellotier, 1.7.2014:

concerning the Crusader and the Blackbird, got some problems:

-there's still a "rembrandt" part in your -set files for both, it
doesn't activate rembrandt anymore
, but is it ok to overwrite rembrandt
user settings in a plane?


https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/ma ... /31818630/

I trust you're sufficiently familiar with the meaning of not anymore to know that it means if something doesn't do X any more, it did do X before.

So you seem to be grossly mistaken in your claim - sadly for you, the mailing list archive keeps the record :D

We may agree that since 2014 or so it wasn't done. But let me assure you that it's also not okay to overwrite user settings airplane side.



I am an old guy ( more than 80 ) however i know precisely what i am talking about, my brain is longer working ( only the eyes are less , so sometime i cannot play with the computer )

You refer again and again to an old misunderstanding by Mr jean Pellotier , as far i remember i gave you the answer by Ahmad about it . You should find it within the mail i sent you, or at least within the FG mail along 2014.

No Rembrandt was not activated in the set file.

But like said again and again under condition when Rembrandt is actuated by the user , their is some setting within the set file ( or within nasal script ) wiich tune the Rembrandt effect.


Up to you to be dishonest by attacking and destroying the good work and good ideas done by Gérard. (in memory)


All the best

Josh
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Octal450 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:19 pm

This is the problem.

You are changing settings without consent of the user! This is issue!

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Josh_grtuxteam » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:34 pm

swampthing wrote in Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:04 pm:My personal opinion is do away with Rembrandt as the only way of lighting and Rembrandt doesn't work at all for many users and it doesn't work for me either. ALS to me is far better. Regarding the Crusader though this is much to nice of a model to disappear. I have tried the updated version and I was glad to finally get to fly it, sadly I can fly 15 other aircraft up to a aircraft carrier and pick the carrier up through MP but never with the Crusader. Why is this? I know its off topic but since we are here I thought I would ask for that problem to be addressed. I also hope that this problem can be resolved with a little more class. How must it look for new users to come on the forums and always see this type of arguing? Perhaps when it gets this heated it should go to PM. It is quite a turn off to see argument after argument, all of the way to "where did you fly today" And I'm not saying the two of you but wow there are some condescending people on the Flightgear forum. So many extra comments added to discussions that are not needed. So what do we get? Flame wars everywhere.



I won't try to open an other talk ALS versus Rembrandt , their was a lot along the last 5 (?) years.
However i never understood why it is said that Rembrandt cannot be played.
i do have an old computer with an old GPU Nvidia ( i know that the other members from our team have some similar equipment) , we have ever been able to fly with Rembrandt, most of the Gerard's GPL an CC models.
May be the difference is with the operating system ( we are running Linux), and some specific tuning.

About Crusader + Carrier MP , it should work, at least the GPL Crusader which was offered within our Sourceforge SVN data base (end of 2016).
That last version i guess should be longer available.

Whatever i can try to help you.

Cheers

Josh
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Josh_grtuxteam » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:44 pm

it0uchpods wrote in Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:19 pm:This is the problem.

You are changing settings without consent of the user! This is issue!

Kind Regards,
Josh



Look at Rembrandt , there is some very useful parameters which could/should be texture dependent. ( so model dependent ) .
Mostly when cockpit view

There is also some specific features like, night vision and bloom to simulate some specific equipments ( Gerard did used vignette for periscope view within Magister and Zephyr )

Obviously working only if the user activate Rembrandt :D


Josh


My bad i referred to bloom should have been vignette sorry
Last edited by Josh_grtuxteam on Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Octal450 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:51 pm

I STILL think it should be a thing which is to ask the user on model startup if he likes to make such a change to his settings. I would pissed to see my settings changed without permission.

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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Josh_grtuxteam » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:43 pm

We should ask to the original author who implemented Rembrandt with those feature why such flexibility.

For instance let's compare with the shader model specific parameters, which are given by the developer.

As a user do you mind ? when the shader values about , for instance:

<reflection-correction
<reflection-fresnel
<reflection-noise
<ambient-correction
<reflection-rainbow

which are given by the developer, am i wrong ?

Are you such user who consider that every effect parameter should be under your own USER control ?

Well i don't understand your way.

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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Octal450 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:18 am

If you are changing a SETTING which affects the other aircraft, it's not OK.

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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Richard » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:56 am

I tend to add the caveat that this rule only needs to apply to settings that are persisted - that's how I define user preferences rather than properties that are just on a dialog. ISTR that all Rembrandt settings are persisted and therefore should not be changed by a model - unless the model has an option that the user must select
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Thorsten » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:59 am

No Rembrandt was not activated in the set file.


Your memory is deceiving you - that's not what the review found and that's not what Ahmad argued afterwards and that's not what we can read in the mailing list archives, sorry. If you think otherwise, prove it, I pointed you to the list archives which are very clear on the point:

The plane did automatically select Rembrandt when starting up and was later changed to automatically alter persistent user settings when starting up, neither of which is acceptable in FGAddon.

The rest of the discussion is a red herring - you can of course alter effect parameters (that's what the effect files are for) - just not rendering settings (that's a misuse of effect files).

And as dozens of other planes illustrate, it's quite possible to configure specific effects to great visuals without overriding user settings.

Up to you to be dishonest by attacking and destroying the good work and good ideas done by Gérard. (in memory)


I won't bother to make public the mail I received from Ahmad at one point (it's pretty explicit in the wording it uses and forum rules won't have that) - but I will say that it's pretty clear who has been doing the attacking, and I'll leave it to any reader of the mailing list archives to decide who is being dishonest here and whether it's really plausible that FGData committers doing a review could be mistaken about the fact that Rembrandt starts up without being selected.

I would suggest you just conform to repository standards as explained to you and stop blaming the rest of the world for asking you to not create problematic situations for users.
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby swampthing » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:46 am

To Josh_grtuxteam. I had no isues with the visuals of the aircraft but as said before i guess Rembrandt has to be turned on during launch, I may have missread. The aircraft look and works wonderful other than the MP carier issue. I have an i5 3.3 quad core with 8 gigs of ram and gfx is a GT730. When Rembrandt is turned on through the browser i have guages that white out if i remember right. This was in Linux Mint and i think Thorsten pointed out that i may have Rembrandt turned on through the QT luancher, which was the case. Since i don't use rembrandt.... Can someone tell me what settings are actually being changed? I thought rembrandt was either on or off. I'm just trying to learn for my own education what the real offense is.

All the best,
Steve
Last edited by swampthing on Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Thorsten » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:58 am

I'm just trying to learn for my own education what the real offense is.


Was. The offending version never got committed - not sure whether it is still preserved somewhere.
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby swampthing » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:02 pm

Concerning the tag i agree with Josh. The French used the F-8 up until it was replaced by the Rafale. This would make it a different animal than the old U.S Vietnam era F-8. I think the actual variant should be respected but maybe this is easily resolved http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/crusader/crusader.htm
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Re: F8E related, last update by trenk

Postby Thorsten » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:24 pm

I've stated my reasoning, that's all I have to say on the matter, if you disagree you need to fix it yourself.
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