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Aircraft windows rationale?

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Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby CaptB » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:40 pm

Hello,

As I continue modeling the B763, I started analysing the sense of having the pax windows that I have already modeled and cut out, I have also discussed this with some fellow aircraft modellers(not FG) and my conclusion is that it does not only make the mesh a lot more complex, which was quite obvious, but also if one is after realism it might not make sense, especially for these heavies with all sorts of seat/class configurations that airlines have(the windows layout are different from airline to airline)

On one side it might look better, and you can apply all sort of nice eyecandy to these cutout windows so in a way they might look realistic, but if the goal is to have the aircraft follow it's real life counterpart's look then windows on a texture seem a better idea than having one modeled and mismatching window configuration for all the airlines.

I would love to have your thought on the issue before I move ahead, thanks.
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Re: Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby Octal450 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:42 pm

I think textures would be better. After all, its not like its passenger simulator ;)
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Re: Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:30 pm

until it is and you do have the ability to change view to the pax compartment and sit in a seat looking out the window at the wings flexing and the land and clouds flying by ;)
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Re: Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby DFaber » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:25 am

Hi guys,

CaptB wrote in Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:40 pm:I would love to have your thought on the issue before I move ahead, thanks.


You can also model the windows alone and place them close to the (uncut) fuselage. That way it's just a matter of selecting/unselecting the Windows Object. Applying a glass shader requires them being seperate Objects anyway.
I did that on the Sunderland flying boat and haven't found any problems yet.

wkitty42 wrote in Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:30 pm:until it is and you do have the ability to change view to the pax compartment and sit in a seat looking out the window at the wings flexing and the land and clouds flying by ;)


It's good to keep that in mind. But since the fuselage and windows normals are pointing outward, it is still possible to look out of an interiour model outwards. Requires dedicated interiours for passenger and freight use though.

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Re: Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby Johan G » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:46 am

DFaber wrote in Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:25 am:[...] since the fuselage and windows normals are pointing outward, it is still possible to look out of an interiour model outwards. Requires dedicated interiours for passenger and freight use though.

Very interesting point. :)

Do I understand you correctly in that the external model would not need cuts for the windows as those from a cabin view could be implemented as part of the cabin model. In essence from an outside view there would be no need to show the cabin model, and from the cabin view there would be no need to show the external or cockpit model (provided there is a closed cockpit door).

I wonder what that would do to performance (in particular in multiplayer) if widely implemented. :wink:
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Re: Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby DFaber » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:38 pm

Johan G wrote in Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:46 am:Do I understand you correctly in that the external model would not need cuts for the windows as those from a cabin view could be implemented as part of the cabin model. In essence from an outside view there would be no need to show the cabin model, and from the cabin view there would be no need to show the external or cockpit model (provided there is a closed cockpit door).


basically yes. If you want to be able to see the interiour of the Aircraft, I see two possible ways, which I haven't tried yet. Stuff the interiour in a different render bin, so transparent windows look through the fuselage (remember the propdisc-erases-parts-of the-model bug) or maybe using an interiour reflection shader with pictures from the interiour (just an idea).

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Re: Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby Thorsten » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:21 pm

Stuff the interiour in a different render bin, so transparent windows look through the fuselage (remember the propdisc-erases-parts-of the-model bug)


Problems with transparent surfaces are usually caused by incorrect z-buffering (aka, you did not use an effect designed for transparent surfaces for a transparent surface).

model-transparent.eff, model-combined-transparent.eff, glass.eff or hud.eff should all have correct z-buffering, so there should be no need to assign opaque surfaces to a different render bin.

You can not render a transparent surface correctly using model-default.eff (which happens if you do not assign any effect), but that's not the fault of the effect framework.
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Re: Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby CaptB » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:39 am

The usual wing view is one that looks out but also captures the window and parts of the inner panels, my idea is to have a model of that section(window and panel) positioned in front of the camera and turned on only when the wing view is active.

As for the flat windows in front of the fuselage, I believe the 777 uses this for the night windows?
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Re: Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby Lina001 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:55 am

Why don't choose textures?
Last edited by Lina001 on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Aircraft windows rationale?

Postby CaptB » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:52 pm

Lina001 wrote in Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:55 am:Why don't choose textures?


That was considered in the forst post and I went ahead with the textures, even though the artifacts were not visible much after applying a texture.
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