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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby Hooray » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:56 am

does it support multiple independent instance, i.e. can you create more than one PFD (captain / first officer?) - as in showing 3 different PFDs in 3 separate Canvas GUI dialogs ?

Like you said, the NavDisplay mess is using MapStructure internally - but the real feat is supporting independent instances and independent front-ends, which is to say that it does not access properties directly, but uses a shim layer to map instrument specific events to configurable properties.

Which is why it is the only Canvas based instrument that can be easily reconfigured for different cockpits/aircraft, but also to be used just via GUI dialogs (not just showing a placement, but an actual instrument that is instantiated separately) - all of which includes the notion of "styling" for similar functionality that mainly differs in appearance.


That is why we can pull off stuff like this:

http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Protot ... play_Style
Image

Speaking in general, as far as I am aware, there is currently no dedicated "PFD" framework, but several people have tried creating one - if your code/approach is sufficiently generic, could it be used as such - possibly in conjunction with Thorsten's procedural "canvas_shapes.draw" API ?
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby AVA117 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:55 am

Greetings,

I'm currently trying to make a FlightGear video to mark my 1000th flight hour in it. So let's say after I land I taxi to the terminal shut down my engines and do the necessary procedures after that I go to replay mode (Ctrl + R) and see my aircraft on approach with the engines not spinning after landing in which I deployed my thrust reversers and spoilers/air brakes it doesn't do it in replay mode.. Hope this gets fix soon :)
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby Octal450 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:06 pm

@Hooray
Yes I know what's MapStructure.
I'm working to find a way to make independant PFDs in one file, but I don't know if I can do that easily. I could simply use my base_update method I use in my ECAMs, with the common stuff, and have independent updates for the independent parts.

Hmm, I record all the properties, so it should... Strange.

I have more important things to look into right now, so I won't look I to that quite yet.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby Hooray » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:50 pm

Regardless of what I said, if you find the problem itself interesting, you may want to look up some of the advice I have previously given whenever someone announced that they were working on an aircraft specific Canvas display/instrument, i.e. covering some of the lessons we learnt during the refactoring of the ND code and the creation of the MapStructure framework. Even if you aren't planning on coming up with a new framework from scratch, it may help to look at other code and ideas, especially those that actually worked out well enough (think Richard's MFD framework).

The thing to keep in mind here is that both, Nasal as a language embedded in FlightGear, but also the Canvas system are rather flexible, and maybe even "too flexible", in that they encourage a "free form" approach of coming up with new instruments rather easily - however, somewhere down the road people may realize that the time they spent on working on such code may have better been spent detailing their mid-term requirements to come up with a design that may help accomplish all their goals in the long-term.

I don't know if you have ever looked the navdisplay.mfd or navdisplay.styles files, or even the EFB stuff created by I-NEMO (IIRC). The Nasal code there is frankly a freakin mess, and that's usually because people started writing code before knowing anything about their requirements - but at some point, things worked "well enough", so that they began sharing it, maybe even documenting it, and making it available for others to use/extend.

In the case of the ND, that meant that it would not support more than instance (instrument) per aircraft, i.e. would show the same display on all ND screens. Equally, it didn't support other aircraft, also it contained many assumptions about the properties in use (again, aircraft specifics), but also the cockpit bindings and other systems.

And then, there's other issues - such as people wanting to do multiplayer/dual-control or multi-instance setups like those shown at FSWeekend/LinuxTag.

All of this is to say that it isn't impossible or even difficult to design for these requirements, but it is a ton of work to add a correspondign architecture to such code once it is almost complete.

That is one of the reasons why most of the canvas early-adopters have been encouraging a modular, framework-centric, approach to creating avionics, usually advocating standalone prototyping of Canvas avionics using just a Canvas GUI dialog. That way, it will be much easier to ensure that multiple instances can be made to work, and that different aircraft/autopilots or route manager configurations will also work.

In the long-term this usually means that other contributors will get involved to help with the maintenance of the system - for instance, imagine you were to come up with a useful PFD framework that isn't specific to your aircraft only, others needing a PFD may reuse your work and even join the effort. Probably for pretty much the same reasons that you may be using the NavDisplay/MapStructure frameworks, or even Nasal/Canvas in general - we're literally standing on the shoulders of giants here, but every once in a while we can also be/become the giants for others to be standing on us (a few years from now, which is what happened when it comes to the MapStructure framework and to the Canvas system in general).


If you can relate to this kind of thinking, you may want to reconsider your approach and maybe look at what is needed to write code that isn't specific to just a single aircraft/instrument or instance - it's not that difficult, things may even fall into place automatically once you stop developing/testing using a single aircraft only.


http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Coding ... _Framework
http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Bootst ... Canvas_MFD
http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Using_ ... s_in_Nasal
http://wiki.flightgear.org/Canvas_PFD_Framework
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby Octal450 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:21 pm

Hi Hooray
Yes, the ND is using mapstructure.

I do think it would be useful, but keep in mind, the PFD will be very tightly connected to various systems, just as the FMGC. Probably the SVG would be the only useful part. For example, the FMA at the top of the PFD is tightly connected to A3XX-AUTOFLIGHT which is a fork of IT-AUTOFLIGHT. It won't work in any other model, unless the exact same A3XX-AUTOFLIGHT (FMGC.nas, FMGC-b.nas) and PFD_FMA.nas are used.

I'm willing to try and make a PFDstructure if that is beneficial, but unlike the ND, I'm not sure how useful it would be, since every single plane as a different style of PFD.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby Octal450 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:18 am

The WONDERFUL new Virtual Cockpit by Thorsten H is now 75% ready!

Image

I have still more controls to connect, such as the ND controls, and the panel to the left of the PFD.

The new VC required changes to the nose of the airplane, to fit correctly. The A320 fuselage was already corrected in his package, and Thorsten will fix the A319 and A321 fuselages aswell from the IDG package. I will be adapting it to the A318 due to the strange way we've made it. :D

Kind Regards,
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby japanair772 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:07 am

Woah! Nice work IDG and Thorsten H!
Love it!
Thanks japanair772
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby omega13a » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:02 am

it0uchpods wrote in Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:18 am:The WONDERFUL new Virtual Cockpit by Thorsten H is now 75% ready!

Image

The A320 fuselage was already corrected in his package, and Thorsten will fix the A319 and A321 fuselages aswell from the IDG package.


I hope he fixes the livery problem with the A319 that drove me nuts when I made some American Airlines heritage liveries.
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby flycanarias » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:56 pm

Hello guys, this looks very good ! Can you give me a link to a working version for FG 2017.3.1 ? I have newly installed the aircraft and it doesn't load properly, meaning I have neither an internal nor an external model?
Anybody to help?

Best regards,

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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby Octal450 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:15 pm

Have you tried.... removing.... -master.... from....the....zip?

Kind Regards,
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby Octal450 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:06 am

Hi everyone:
The new Virtual Cockpit by Thorsten H is now available!
Image

In the A320s, it will be perfect.

In the A321, the front will look slightly odd from the outside, Thorsten will be fixing this soon.

In the A318/A319 the front will look slightly odd from the outside, and there will be a stupid misaligned in the side of the VC, but Thorsten also will be fixing this soon.

Regardless there errors, it still looks excellent!

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby zacarias » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:18 am

it0uchpods wrote in Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:06 am:Hi everyone:
The new Virtual Cockpit by Thorsten H is now available!
Image

In the A320s, it will be perfect.

In the A321, the front will look slightly odd from the outside, Thorsten will be fixing this soon.

In the A318/A319 the front will look slightly odd from the outside, and there will be a stupid misaligned in the side of the VC, but Thorsten also will be fixing this soon.

Regardless there errors, it still looks excellent!

Kind Regards,
Josh


It seems it misses some instruments (like below the gear lever and on the left of the central panel). But maybe (from what I've seen) they are not present in every aircrafts.
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby zacarias » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:34 am

Also the exterior is much better (the front, not so much the rear)! I still miss colored engines in most liveries, though.
Also, there's something odd (color problem) in the front over the nose in some liveries (TAP, some of Lufthansa's, Easyjet, Citilink, among others).
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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby Wecsje » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:04 am

@zacarias

The "missing instruments" are options on the A320, and we will probably work on those at a later time, and make it an option in the aircraft config. The instrument/display you are talking about is the DCDU. Also, this is the eis2 cockpit, and eis1 cockpit may be made in the future.

The 3D exterior model will still be changed, therefore we sre currently not fixing livery problems, as all of them have to be redone anyways.

Regards,

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Re: IDG A32X Professional Development

Postby Octal450 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:06 am

IN addition, we DID NOT CHANGE ANYTHING except the nose. Any other problems were there before.

Kind Regards,
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