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Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby helijah » Sat May 30, 2009 2:05 pm

no problem ;)
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby flyer5 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:25 pm

HHS wrote:
helijah wrote:Hum... sorry HHS but I have always :

Code: Select all
Nasal runtime error: nil used in numeric context
  at /home/helijah/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/AirCrane/Nasal/afcs.nas, line 1024
  called from: /home/helijah/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/AirCrane/Nasal/afcs.nas, line 1114
  called from: /home/helijah/FlightGear/data/Nasal/globals.nas, line 100


and always with the double end of line (which is why the line 514 is indicated also in 1024). Anyway, I am eager to know what it brings;)

Best regards. Emmanuel


Better than the NaN's it produced before... I'm looking for a solution, but it needs time.


Here's a quick fix:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b659 ... f6e8ebb871

Extract to your AirCrane's Nasal folder.

The problem was that the file indicated "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/delta_yaw" where there was no such member. I followed the internal properties, and saw that there was no member "delta_yaw".
I adjusted it to simply "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/yaw", and error message is gone.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby HHS » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:40 pm

Many thanks to you- that solves the issue! :D

Edit: it solves a lot of issues! You can even now enable CAS per default which even wasn't possible on the OH1! Great-thanks for debugging! It will help on the ec135 and coming bk117 as well:D :D
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby helijah » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:36 pm

Yes a very big thank you to all ;)
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby tat » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:20 pm

flyer5 wrote:Here's a quick fix:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b659 ... f6e8ebb871

Extract to your AirCrane's Nasal folder.

The problem was that the file indicated "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/delta_yaw" where there was no such member. I followed the internal properties, and saw that there was no member "delta_yaw".
I adjusted it to simply "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/yaw", and error message is gone.


Hi,

flyer5 wrote:Here's a quick fix:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b659 ... f6e8ebb871

Extract to your AirCrane's Nasal folder.

The problem was that the file indicated "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/delta_yaw" where there was no such member. I followed the internal properties, and saw that there was no member "delta_yaw".
I adjusted it to simply "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/yaw", and error message is gone.


Your solution is not technically right. Changing that line may cause unexpected yaw maneuver in a very strong cross wind condition.
delta_yaw and yaw is very different. The former is a difference between expected yaw position and the current yaw position, and the latter is the yaw output of CAS. Therefore, referring yaw instead of delta_yaw is wrong.

The real problem here is that FCS unexpectedly calls update() function that applies CAS and SAS even when these are not initialized. FCS invokes update() every time /rotors/main/cone_deg is updated. However, the cone_deg property is
somehow updated even though the engine is not running at FG startup, which calls update() before CAS is initialized.
Therefore, the real solution is to prevent calling update when engine is not running at FG startup.

I already committed the fix, so you can update CVS to get the proper one.
I also updated Nasal/aircrane-keyboard.xml. Now you can enable CAS from the beginning, and can toggle enable/disable
CAS by pressing Ctrl-e.

Tat

p.s.
There are four similar fcs.nas (including afcs.nas) in CVS, and I need to update all these files. For better maintainability, I'll unite all these fcs.nas and let each aircraft change the parameters outside fcs.nas. I'll let you know when everything is done.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby helijah » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:48 pm

hey Tat,

I did not understand everything: (But I think find the afcs.nas file in different places is not very good for maintenance.

What do you think of placing a single copy in "Aircraft / Instruments" or "Aircraft/Instruments-3D" so that everyone uses the same ?

Eg "Aircraft / Instruments / Helicopter"

Best regards. Emmanuel
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby HHS » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:44 pm

tat wrote:There are four similar fcs.nas (including afcs.nas) in CVS, and I need to update all these files. For better maintainability, I'll unite all these fcs.nas and let each aircraft change the parameters outside fcs.nas. I'll let you know when everything is done.



Thanks for your inputs and the work!
I'm not sure if I will get happy with your proposal to have a global fcs. Every heli from me has an own fcs. The upcoming bk117 I currently work on has only a Jaw-SAS, the ec135 will have Jaw-SAS and optional P/R and jaw-SAS. All are dependant of the own electrical system and as option working together with the autopilot. With the current solution this woulden't be difficult to make. But I'm not sure about the global one. And myself don't want to have a SAS on every heli though the heli in RL don' have a SAS, but that's my opinion and I'm sure, I'm the only one with this opinion.

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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby helijah » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:38 pm

Hi HHS,

have a afcs.nas file common to all aircraft using the same, does not every designer has to use that one :D

but at this time, the OH-1, The EC665 "Tigre", the AirCrane, the Dauphin and the Ka50 use a same file. Make a change on one of them forced to make the same change everywhere (with the risk of omission or error).

File maintenance becomes a problem:)

Best regards. Emmanuel
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby HHS » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:15 pm

helijah wrote:Hi HHS,

have a afcs.nas file common to all aircraft using the same, does not every designer has to use that one :D

but at this time, the OH-1, The EC665 "Tigre", the AirCrane, the Dauphin and the Ka50 use a same file. Make a change on one of them forced to make the same change everywhere (with the risk of omission or error).

File maintenance becomes a problem:)

Best regards. Emmanuel


Hi,

If it would be still o.k. not to use the global one, I would be happy with Tat's idea. I'm even always happy with making things global, so that it is more easier to get things working on their own aircrafts. As an example: I would be very happy with a (correct simulated) global nasal engine solution for YASim helis as the most two-engines-helis work all the same! (they even share most the same engines in reallife (MD900 & EC135....))

The same with fcs.nas- but at least it should be still possible to have influence on it by the aircrafts-own electrical and other systems...And it should be still possible to change the values so it matches to the aircrafts-own fdm. That's all I wish for - hopefully not too much or impossible.

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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby tat » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:29 pm

Hi,

Thanks for your comments,
What I want to say is that I want to change fcs.nas for improving the maintainability of fcs.nas, as well as for your saving time catching up the changes in original fcs.nas. It doesn't mean all FCS capable choppers must use my fcs.nas.

Anyway, I've updated OH-1's fcs.nas so it is independent from OH-1. Most of parameters are given from OH-1 specific nasal file (OH1.nas). This means that fcs.nas is fully customizable but yet reusable. I'll find some common folder for fcs.nas so it can be reused among other FCS capable choppers without making clones.

You can see setAFCSConfig() in OH1.nas to understand how to change parameters outside fcs.nas.

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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby helijah » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:53 pm

Hey tat.

Wow. Good work

I have to update (on my hard drive only for now) the fcs.nas in my Ka50. So I placed the fcs.nas of the OH-1 in "/Aircraft/Instruments/fcs-generic/" and output management fcs of OH-1.nas to bring in fcs-management.nas (I like to separate the elements. This allows for easier re-use for everyone :D )

It works very well. I will now edit the Aircrane, SuperFrelon and other. Of course I expect to know if "/Aircraft/Instruments/fcs-generic/" location is suitable for everyone before putting it all in CVS.

Of course it remains to modify the parameters of fcs-management.nas to correspond to different helicopters .... hum ... and then my skills are limited :D But I'm sure some (HHS randomly :P ) will be happy to review all.

Best regards. Emmanuel
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby HHS » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:18 pm

helijah wrote:Hey tat.

Wow. Good work

I have to update (on my hard drive only for now) the fcs.nas in my Ka50. So I placed the fcs.nas of the OH-1 in "/Aircraft/Instruments/fcs-generic/" and output management fcs of OH-1.nas to bring in fcs-management.nas (I like to separate the elements. This allows for easier re-use for everyone :D )

It works very well. I will now edit the Aircrane, SuperFrelon and other. Of course I expect to know if "/Aircraft/Instruments/fcs-generic/" location is suitable for everyone before putting it all in CVS.

Of course it remains to modify the parameters of fcs-management.nas to correspond to different helicopters .... hum ... and then my skills are limited :D But I'm sure some (HHS randomly :P ) will be happy to review all.

Best regards. Emmanuel


Hi,

it would be better to locate it under data/aircraft/generic as the fcs is not a instrument.

I will take a look into the new fcs.nas-system the next time and see how to improve the settings for the aircrafts,(especially the tigre) and look if this all now is also suitable for my helis using fcs.nas!

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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby helijah » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:45 pm

HHS salvation.

But yes, of course. You absolutely right. "Aircraft / generic" is a much better solution. Why I did not think.

I will immediately change that here. And at the same time put it on CVS;)


Best regards. Emmanuel
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby flyer5 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:47 pm

tat wrote:
flyer5 wrote:Here's a quick fix:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b659 ... f6e8ebb871

Extract to your AirCrane's Nasal folder.

The problem was that the file indicated "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/delta_yaw" where there was no such member. I followed the internal properties, and saw that there was no member "delta_yaw".
I adjusted it to simply "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/yaw", and error message is gone.


Hi,

flyer5 wrote:Here's a quick fix:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b659 ... f6e8ebb871

Extract to your AirCrane's Nasal folder.

The problem was that the file indicated "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/delta_yaw" where there was no such member. I followed the internal properties, and saw that there was no member "delta_yaw".
I adjusted it to simply "/controls/flight/fcs/cas/yaw", and error message is gone.


Your solution is not technically right. Changing that line may cause unexpected yaw maneuver in a very strong cross wind condition.
delta_yaw and yaw is very different. The former is a difference between expected yaw position and the current yaw position, and the latter is the yaw output of CAS. Therefore, referring yaw instead of delta_yaw is wrong.

The real problem here is that FCS unexpectedly calls update() function that applies CAS and SAS even when these are not initialized. FCS invokes update() every time /rotors/main/cone_deg is updated. However, the cone_deg property is
somehow updated even though the engine is not running at FG startup, which calls update() before CAS is initialized.
Therefore, the real solution is to prevent calling update when engine is not running at FG startup.

I already committed the fix, so you can update CVS to get the proper one.
I also updated Nasal/aircrane-keyboard.xml. Now you can enable CAS from the beginning, and can toggle enable/disable
CAS by pressing Ctrl-e.

Tat

p.s.
There are four similar fcs.nas (including afcs.nas) in CVS, and I need to update all these files. For better maintainability, I'll unite all these fcs.nas and let each aircraft change the parameters outside fcs.nas. I'll let you know when everything is done.


Yup, I shoulda known it wouldn'tve been that easy to get the afcs working by simply changing delta_yaw to plain old "yaw". :roll:
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby helijah » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:42 pm

Well.

In CVS now use the /Aircraft/Generic/fcs.nas 4 helicpter

AirCrane
Super Frelon
Ka 50
Tigre

Best regards. Emmanuel
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