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Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:21 pm

@WoodSTokk, looking a little closer at the Citation electrical, does the Citation have an APP (Auxiliary Power Plant)? It looks like it is started off the battery? I don't think you can even start the AirCrane off battery. Typically that is what the APP is used for. The generators only come online after rotor engagement and then the APP is stopped.

Stumbled onto this for the Citation II if anyone might be interested.
https://github.com/Idate96/State_estimation/blob/master/README.md
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby WoodSTokk » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:45 pm

wlbragg wrote in Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:21 pm:@WoodSTokk, looking a little closer at the Citation electrical, does the Citation have an APP (Auxiliary Power Plant)? It looks like it is started off the battery? I don't think you can even start the AirCrane off battery. Typically that is what the APP is used for. The generators only come online after rotor engagement and then the APP is stopped.


No, the Citation II has no APP orAPU. The small engines (P&W JT15D-4) can be started off the battery with the generators used as motors.
I think the engines of the Aircrane are to heavy and massiv to start up from a battery.

wlbragg wrote in Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:21 pm:Stumbled onto this for the Citation II if anyone might be interested.
https://github.com/Idate96/State_estimation/blob/master/README.md


Oh, nice. Havn't know that data. The last time i worked on the Citation II is around 1 year in the past.
Thanks for the info.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:05 pm

Development continuing!

Image

Image
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:31 pm

Working on the manual startup sequence. It's really unbelievable the amount of work that is required to complete these systems. Such a long way to go to make it complete and polished. CW panel alone is going to be a major task. I eventually want to get this to a point where it has a cue-card system similar to what Thorsten has done in the Shuttle. It's going to need it in order for the average user to learn how to operate all the systems.

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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby helijah » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:10 pm

nice
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:45 pm

Thanks helijah.

I've started on the electrical portion. Converting the Citation's electrical. It's a really close fit with the exception of no APP. There is a slight variation between the existing electrical breaker and switch paths and the defined Citation's paths but I am slowly untangling it. Also having to hack the 2 engine and 2 generator portion as the AirCrane's 2nd engine isn't modeled as a stand alone 2nd engine with all the associated properties.

I have the beginning of the CWS system modeled. I have no map of which colors any of the CW lights are supposed to be, only their wording. I may need some educated guesses as to what colors the various CW lights are.

Anyone want to take a guess at the colors, this is the panel.

Image

@Thorsten, I eventually plan to refactor the Shuttle CWS panel if this one turns out nice. I never was pleased with the Shuttles panel modeling. I think this will be much nice looking.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:37 pm

@WoodSTokk, I managed to convert the Citation electrical to the AirCrane. Works great. It is so close to the same circuitry that there is a lot of electrical paths that I will be able to use as is or with very little modifications. I still need to add the APP system to it, but that shouldn't be a problem.
I basically converted the AirCrane lighting paths to match the existing electrical. And it was very little effort involved to tie the AirCrane generator paths and systems into the electrical. Saved me a ton of time reinventing the wheel. Thank you for suggesting it.

I still have to do some more reading but I think the AirCrane even has a crossover circuit similar to the Citation. I haven't seen any mention of an emergency bus though.

One question I have if you know, I don't see the battery charge when the generators are running. It drains when online, gen's take bat offline but it never seems to charge. Is there circuitry involved I haven't noticed, or what?
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby GinGin » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:50 pm

Very nice work.
I am gonna have a look for the colors and compared it with Boeing logic

We might it find in videos
At the beginning, a glimpse of some of them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEpQZyf8Yug
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:42 pm

Nice, I found this one but hadn't seen the one you posted. Notice some are solid and some just the lettering light up.
Also note: the one you posted is a 3 column CWS and the one I posted is 4 column. I've modeled the 4 column as that is what I have the flight manual for.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby WoodSTokk » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:12 pm

wlbragg wrote in Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:37 pm:@WoodSTokk, I managed to convert the Citation electrical to the AirCrane. Works great. It is so close to the same circuitry that there is a lot of electrical paths that I will be able to use as is or with very little modifications. I still need to add the APP system to it, but that shouldn't be a problem.
I basically converted the AirCrane lighting paths to match the existing electrical. And it was very little effort involved to tie the AirCrane generator paths and systems into the electrical. Saved me a ton of time reinventing the wheel. Thank you for suggesting it.


No problem. You are welcome ;)

wlbragg wrote in Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:37 pm:I still have to do some more reading but I think the AirCrane even has a crossover circuit similar to the Citation. I haven't seen any mention of an emergency bus though.


On the Citation II the generators normally feed his bus (left gen - left bus / right gen - right bus).
Both busses are tied together over a (i think) 325 amp circuit breaker.
First matter is, to not overload one generator (there is a load balancer that comes active if the load of left and right generator is more than 20 amps different).
And secondly, if one engine fail, the other generator can feed both busses (but the other side can receive 325 amps max to avoid overload).
Therefor, if one engine out, the pilot should switch off not important power users to decrease the power load.
The emergency bus is a completely seperated bus only feeded by the battery.
If the BATT switch is in ON position, the battery feed both busses and will drain.
If the BATT switch is in ON position and at least one generator is online, the battery will be charged.
If the BATT switch is in OFF position, the battery does not drain and not charge. Busses has only power if at least one generator is online.
If the BATT switch is in EMER position, the battery supply only the emergency bus. The main busses has only power if at least one generator is online.

I dont know how the electrical system of the AirCrane is build, but in sense of security, i think there is no much differences.

wlbragg wrote in Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:37 pm:One question I have if you know, I don't see the battery charge when the generators are running. It drains when online, gen's take bat offline but it never seems to charge. Is there circuitry involved I haven't noticed, or what?


:? must look at it. Battery should charge if the BATT switch is in ON position and at least one generator is online or external power in plugged in.

EDIT:
The battery charges on the Citation II if one generator is online.
But have also found a bug:
The battery is also charging if it is OFF or in EMER ! That should not do!
Will fix it if i have spare time.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:40 am

Battery should charge if the BATT switch is in ON position and at least one generator is online or external power in plugged in.


OK, I'll look at it a little closer then. If it is supposed to charge then I must have something wrong.

Wow, right in the middle of this work my FlightGear decided to take a nose dive. It loads to the aircraft then not only blows out of FG but reboots my computer. Arg, what a pain in the arss. I'm rebuilding FG right now. I hope this fixes it. It was not just the AirCrane that this was happening to. It was doing it on all aircraft including the UFO.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:13 pm

Dang it, until I sort out my video card issue I am dead in the water. I can't load any graphics program without crashing the CPU in both Windows or Linux.

Anyone ever experience this. Although FG still seems to work on bare bones and default renderer, maybe.
Last edited by wlbragg on Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby helijah » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:00 pm

Argh Damned...... My heart goes out to you. Courage. I hope you'll get back to 3D soon.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby Thorsten » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:35 am

I can't load any graphics program without crashing the CPU in both Windows or Linux.


If it can act across different OS, I fear it has the smell of a hardware problem :(
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:31 am

Yeah, I'm afraid so. I plugged in my nVidia 640 and everything works.

Still trying to troubleshoot the AMD. I think it died. Real shame , it was a decent card.

Gees, when it rains it pours. Cable nternet out this morning. My phone internet still working. It's in the low 20's and light dusting of snow. First of the year, probably all the squirrel chewed lines failing.
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