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Erickson S-64 Aircrane anyone?

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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:13 pm

Nice work - watch out for those birds!
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:08 am

Image

Image

I just finished modeling rotor and engine percent rpm and torque percentage gauges, go Gimp :)

I have no idea where to find or how to derive all these numbers to drive the gauges.

All I can find in the property tree are...

rotors/main/rpm
rotors/main/torque

rotors/tail/rpm
rotors/tail/torque

and

sim/model/aircrane/torque-pct
which is currently used on the percentage of torque gauge. Yet I am pretty sure there is two needles on that gauge, one for tail and one for main rotor torque.

Any help on how to go about figuring this out would be greatly appreciated.

Tons more gauges to do, any Inkscape artists looking for something to do. I'm thinking of installing it but I have never used it. Gimp is a pain and obviously somewhat limited for this type of drawing..
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:12 pm

I think I am slowly starting to understand a little of this.

Sikorsky S-64 power plant is two 4,500 shp turboshaft engines.

2 Pratt and Whitney jftd12a-4a
max power 9000 shp ( ca. 7000 kw)
limit to 5400 shp (ca. 4200 kw)

Main rpm="185"
Rotor rpm="750"

For "percent rpm" this appears to be really close?

Code: Select all
var turbine_rpm = props.globals.getNode("rotors/main/rpm");
var rotor_rpm = props.globals.getNode("rotors/tail/rpm");
setprop("sim/model/aircrane/turbine-rpm-pct",186/turbine_rpm);
setprop("sim/model/aircrane/rotor-rpm-pct",750/rotor_rpm);


The numbers for each needle are really close to each other which is what the docs say when working optimally.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby Octal450 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:11 pm

You should not be using setprop in a loop. Inefficient. Use props.nas instead.

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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:28 pm

Okay, with these calculations the percent rpm for both main and tail rotors read a couple percent below green. With that said. I have observed that the power of the aircrane as modeled is too low. It is not capable of lifting the max retardant capability.

The FDM is configured at
max-power-engine="7100"
but I think maybe it should be closer to...
max-power-engine="9500"
which actually gives me the needed power to lift a full load of retardant.

EDIT:
I don't think that is right either, everything I read points to 5400 to 7900 hp.

That doesn't appear to effect the RPM calculations however as they are defined independently as

Code: Select all
<rotor name="main"
         rpm="185"
</rotor>
<rotor name="tail"
         rpm="750"
</rotor>


I'm not sure how YASim produces these RPM values? How do you achieve 90% to 110% of that stated RPM?

You should not be using setprop in a loop. Inefficient. Use props.nas instead.

Okay, not really an issue for testing this but I understand your point, thanks.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby Maerchenprinz » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:34 pm

wlbragg wrote in Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:08 am:Gimp is a pain and obviously somewhat limited for this type of drawing..

Can confirm this, that's why I use AC3D for this - at least for the scales and/or segments and/or other special stuff. Then I make a screenshot in front of a square of an easy-to-filter colour and then use GIMP for the rest. You can mask the square's colour and cut it out then and create a nice e.g. washed-out background to it, add numbers etc. - you get the idea...
If you use Blender, well, should work similarly, you got the idea!
Maybe you want to give that a try?
If you feel desperate about the big number of instruments to make, take a look at the plane which I'm making, maybe that makes you feel better :) :
http://album.reality.hu/2009/08/07/an-24-cockpit/

Ciao,

Adrian
Side note: Does anyone knows how to make "internal Screenshots" in AC3D's orthographic view, like one can do in 3D-view?
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby Johan G » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:16 pm

There is a bit of a learning curve, but Inkscape is my preference for instruments and dials. You can work with individual parts of the instrument, group them together, move them around and can export raster images in higher resolution if you still have the SVG file around. It also allows for rather precise sizing of parts.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:14 pm

I just found the operators manual for the CH-54b army version and I am in hog heaven. Already answered one pending question about the "torque gauge". It appears to be one needle and it it the main gearbox torque.
I think I also confirmed that the available HP is 5400 - 5800 X2 meaning the under performance of the existing FDM is because it looks like it models HP from only one turboshaft engine. We should now be able to hover over water and pickup a full load without any problem what so ever.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:14 pm

Wow, this has it all! :D
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:38 am

It's getting there!

Image

Everything is fully functional except the VOR and RMI which I will hook up once I make the custom radio cases for them. Fortunately the "Operators Manual" has all the details as to where they are located and what they look like.
Its interesting that the layout i am using is the original layout of the CH-54b complete with the VOR and RMI which have pretty much been removed in the more modern layouts. Reason being, straight from a current pilot, there was no longer much need for them because they mostly fly VFR anymore. I would imagine as a military workhorse however that they needed an "all weather", "all condition" capability.

EDIT:
This image has been changing to match current progress.
Last edited by wlbragg on Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:08 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:17 am

I discovered the fuel configuration wasn't accurate in the existing FDM. Locations and size was incorrect. Also there is an AUX tank that was not included.
AirCrane now has functioning panel fuel gauges.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:46 pm

Front panel gauges are finished for the most part. There are some scale issues with some of the numbers on the dials I noticed that i want to change. There are some labels, indicator lights, CWS panel, operating tables, etc still to do.

Also several systems that need created or tied into if already available.
Oil
Engine Temp
Winch Temp
T5 Indicator
Gas Generator Tachometer

There is the entire overhead panel and the engineering station instruments and electrical.

Image

Image
Last edited by wlbragg on Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby Thorsten » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:11 pm

Wow - that's quite a lot of work in a short time!
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby RobAndrew » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:43 pm

Is this all accurate to the real thing?
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Re: Erickson S-64 Aircrance anyone?

Postby wlbragg » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:25 pm

There are many variations on the interior panel for the AirCrane. This is mostly based on the original military version. But I included the firefighting reconfiguration common to commercial application. The RMI and VOR are usually removed in a commercial versions as they are no longer really required. So to answer your question, yes, this is something you'll find in one version or another of the AirCrane.

Hi Thorsten, yeah I'm really happy to have made this much progress. I've been wanting to do the interior modeling for a long time. I finally got the motivation to really put some effort into it, especially once I found the actual User Manual. What a wealth of information, comparible to the Shuttle Crew Manual. Now there is twice as much stuff to do with system modeling. I'm reluctant to do to much system stuff though because I still want a JSBSim version.
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