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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby IceBreaker » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:02 pm

I make a .blend file for each component of the plane, in addition to the main file with the plane all assembled.

Now I have to understand how to apply the hooks for the tie rods to the right size on the wings and on the rear wing. I have the scheme on 3 views of the real plane, so I can see everything but the smaller parts have to look for them better. For all pivots and small mechanical parts using small scaled cylinders, this is ok, for the wings use of elongated cubes without the two sides at the end, then moving sides and vertices I create small cubic profile tubes and slightly rounded corners, this aesthetically it's ok, I like it and in the real plane I noticed that it's just like that.

the front glass and the top I finished it, I only have to apply the profile of the upper part (the j-3 Cub has a glass roof with a profile that is different from the supercub, but it is very easy to make it.

The wheels are experimental, I want to make them so, with the tires with small extrusions, while the wheel rims are beautiful with a half sphere with textures style metal chromed and added material?

Useful question: can I use the materials in my models with Flightgear? does the .ac format support them? for this reason I realize everything in .blend, then the FG community helps me to implement the airplane using the code of the current one (replacing only the new 3d model I'm doing).

Here are some screenshots, other things I'm modeling on external files, then I'll make all the files for each component. Thank you all.

Image

Image
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:09 pm

You can use Blender Renderer materials, but not Cycles materials.

Does these pictures help?
Image

Image
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby IceBreaker » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:19 pm

exact, use blender render (I imagined this). The photos confirm what I thought, I realize small models for supports (cylinders, rectangles, and more), all very simple of course but to give more detail to the 3D model.

The engine of the j-3 cub is specular, so it helps me a lot, while the supercub has the internal engine, so I make small models visible from the front slots.

Do you know what intrigues me? the final phase, that is, the cockpit modeling! I think it is very easy (cloche, seat, throttle, and instrumentation support), my problem will be to realize the textures of the panels (altimeter, anemometer and more). I trust a lot on your support when I will finish the external model.
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:35 pm

If necessary you can re-use the existing textures :)
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby wlbragg » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:53 pm

@IceBreaker I hope you will keep in mind the" VAST" amount of tuning the model animations and code have taken to get all the variants and variations of equipment to work together. This is a very complex grouping of objects, animations, contact points, etc.
Example, if you change the base position of the wheels there will be incredible ramifications throughout the existing logic, everything from contact point adjustments to damage placement positions, all the undercarriage fittings, accessory equipment, etc., all rely on the current position of the fuselage and all other objects.
I just want to forewarn you of this and hopefully you can work with this from the start or we will end up in a negative pain to gain position where it won't be worth the effort to incorporate the new model into the existing FDM and simulation code.
I not really sure what I am even asking for here other than we should probably have discussed these things before blindly jumping into modeling a brand new mesh. It needs to be done smartly if we are to use much of the existing code framework.
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby IceBreaker » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:55 pm

@wibragg I thank you for the information, and reading the wiki these days I understood very clearly the complexity in the implementation of aircraft within flightgear. Nasal is an object-oriented scripting language, I am used to scripting languages like python and lua. I'm new to the flightgear project and I need time to study everything, experiment with solutions, and better understand what's good and what's bad inside the simulator. I have experience with projects of various kinds over the past years, I have made numerous mods for FSX, and commercial and open source games, but each project is different from the other.

My current goal is to create a github (public) repository, where I insert new 3d models for fg (airplanes, buildings, vehicles, and generic structures for scenarios).

Initially I wanted to do retopology with the current model of the j-3 cub, then I changed my mind! it is worth making new models of the main planes because in the future flightgear can implement new features, for example: the wings that move with the friction of the air? structural damage of aircraft (we already have this feature) that allows you to damage the plane in various parts based on landing, or hitting an object in the scenario will break the wings, and more. To get the right realism we need new models of aircraft with a greater detail, otherwise the mesh is too poor in polygons and when you break a component the effect is not nice.

The best thing? I create new models, I publish them on github in .blend + textures format, then we create a group that works on the implementation of new models, this allows you to do 2 important things: use the current model of the aircraft while the community works on new models , when the new models are finished, and implemented in FG are replaced. All this allows you to work better and have new long-term improved content in source format (.blend not .ac without the need to do import / export which is a nightmare).

The organization and definition of a standard for the project is fundamental, because it allows you to create better content, development documentation for blender updated with new techniques easier and more effective (for example the repo on blender is managed by a script that does not find in no other 3d modeler, it is powerful, easy and many do not even know it).

Conclude by saying one last thing: the Cessna 172p, Cessna 182s, Piper J-3 Cub, Piper P18 Supercub, the wonderful IDX-32X, Boeing 707, 777, and some helicopters are projects that serve to enhance and make usable flighgear to all So it's worth it to get involved, be patient, and in the end we'll have content that has nothing to do with commercial products (even now FG is fantastic).

Working on the code with the new models is inevitable, because the number of sides, vertices, proportions and more are different from the basic models (even if only slightly), so the current code will be a good job even if the base already exists, so they are fiduzioso. I am always positive, I do not give up, and with the passion I have always done everything. Thank you for your support, I really appreciate it.
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby Thorsten » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:05 pm

it is worth making new models of the main planes because in the future flightgear can implement new features, for example: the wings that move with the friction of the air?


We can do that as well using e.g. the deformation shader animating the dragon wings.

To get the right realism we need new models of aircraft with a greater detail, otherwise the mesh is too poor in polygons and when you break a component the effect is not nice.


Wayne's point is that to do this properly requires a coordinated effort - it's lots of work both on the 3d model creation as well as on the animation / effects side. The successful projects of that kind are not set up as a one-way street, they're exchanging information back and forth between people.

In other words, you need to get in touch with the people who maintain aircraft systems and animation and you need to listen to them as well- then there'll be working detailed aricraft in FG - otherwise you might well end up with a repository of models which do not fly because nobody wants to go through the work of animating them.

The organization and definition of a standard for the project is fundamental,


With all due respect, but coming new to FG, perhaps you should not try to define standards as the first thing you do (generally it doesn't work well... that's based on experience). Perhaps it would be better for everyone if you join some existing effort and learn the tools of the trade that way.
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby IceBreaker » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:40 pm

@Thorsten You are definitely right. I spent hours viewing the official FG repository on Sourceforge, I found many useful things. Flightgear actually requires a lot of time, study and dedication (a lot), to increase my experience I follow the work of the IDG team, and I'm carefully looking at simpler models (like the Flash 2 Alpha, practically the Trix Ultralight of FSX).

I think I will follow your advice, and above all I am studying the wiki and all that I find on the web. Thank you very much.

Today just finished modeling the supports for the wings, the ailerons and other mechanical supports for the P18 and J-3, slowly I can continue, carefully following the original model.

Thank you very much, I apologize for the many questions (often even trivial and hasty?), Are being studied and experimentation, then text the new model using the UFO that is really nice to put new static objects in the scenario and see the final effect.

Thank you all for your time.
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby wlbragg » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:19 pm

@IceBreaker if your not ready to post a link to your work repository publicly, could you PM it to me so I can follow along and give you input or feedback as it pertains to existing infrastructure.

Thank you for your understanding of my concerns. Like you, I really love this aircraft and thus why I have put so much time and effort into helping to make it into what it is to date. I am all for you efforts, i just want to make sure we get to use your work without the need to start from scratch as there is a massive amounts of man hours already invested in this simulation and a new model that can't be easily incorporated into the existing framework won't be an effect use of your talent.

Even with this in mind there is still going to be much work to incorporate new models.
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby IceBreaker » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:31 pm

@wlbragg I really appreciate your words, you understand perfectly what I have in mind. Do you know what? I learned to use Blender with the 2.49 release which was much more difficult than the current one, I did it all by myself! I was making increasingly complex models, then I created them again trying to understand the use of modifiers (which often lead to roads with no return). Do not worry, I have understood quite clearly the complexity in making content for FlighGear, and following your advice will probably tomorrow publish the finished model (external), along with the current release of the original model (I understand how to fix some things, so we can improve it on hold of the new model).

I also publish a small personal guide on modeling, techniques I use and useful tricks with Blender (transformation of materials into textures and other useful things that I have learned over time).

I do not want to slow down your work and that of other users, correcting the current model helps me to better understand some organizational aspects, in parallel with this work on the new model.

I found the Mainair Flash 2 Alpha model for FG made by a user named Stuart Buchanan, it's really precious, it's a simple model similar to the FSX Trike I was planning to do in the future. I got a lot of documentation, which I laid out, readjusted, and printed because I made it very easy to consult directly.

Here is a screenshot of the J-3 Cub engine. The engine I have to review, I noticed that in the j-3 cub is a four-cylinders with the heads that come out the sides of the cowl.

Image
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby xDraconian » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:06 am

@IceBreaker, Nice work on that engine and prop.

Assuming that is an A-65, then it is upside down.
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby IceBreaker » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:36 am

@xDraconian yes, because I was using the "remesh" modifier to try to decrease the polygons (you can see the cylinder heads to understand this).

I've reshaped some parts of the engine, because I want to make them lighter. The engine in the J-3 Cub is hidden inside the cowl, so only the cylinder heads are visible externally, while the rest of the engine is only visible from the side openings of the cowl.

The P18 SuperCub is easier, the engine is completely hidden, so I reuse this to show the cylinders in the front openings of the cowl.

Now I'm modeling the cowl for the J-3 and the SuperCub so save the project in two different rows and work on both models.
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby IceBreaker » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:51 pm

I did not have time to update my private repository for the project. I reshaped the engine and the propeller. Now I like it! less complex, the proportions are better, and I can modify it for both the J-3 and the SuperCub.

I update the repository and then make it public (a matter of a few hours). Thank you all.

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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby dany93 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:32 pm

(Difficulty to bleed energy at landing)
Engine 65 hp, with the test propeller prop_74in_2f_NACA_15-30deg (this message), blade angle set at 18°,

Decreasing the idle engine RPM
Code: Select all
  <minmp unit="INHG">         8.0      </minmp> <!-- ini 10 -->
  <idlerpm>                  500.0      </idlerpm> <!-- ini 700 -->

the engine no longer pulls at 45 MPH, slowing down for landing is easier.
Almost possible to do a 3-point landing (or possible with a bit of luck).

(Not really optimized, just a test)
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Re: JSBSim Piper J-3 Cub

Postby IceBreaker » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:38 pm

dany93 wrote in Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:32 pm:(Difficulty to bleed energy at landing)
Engine 65 hp, with the test propeller prop_74in_2f_NACA_15-30deg (this message), blade angle set at 18°,

Decreasing the idle engine RPM
Code: Select all
  <minmp unit="INHG">         8.0      </minmp> <!-- ini 10 -->
  <idlerpm>                  500.0      </idlerpm> <!-- ini 700 -->

the engine no longer pulls at 45 MPH, slowing down for landing is easier.
Almost possible to do a 3-point landing (or possible with a bit of luck).

(Not really optimized, just a test)


Thank you so much for your information. I'm adapting the model of the engine for both the j-3 cub and the supercub.

Unfortunately, private life takes away much of our time, but I'm really anxious to finish. The code re-adaptation phase will be complex, but it will be very nice for me, it helps me to learn and understand the logic of FlightGear.

Thank you
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