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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:18 pm

in some cases, the problem with transmitted properties on MP is that someone rooted the property with a leading '/' which then leads to polluting other MP players' crafts' property trees... leaving the leading '/' off keeps the property within the craft's properties where it belongs instead of it stomping over other folks' properties...

and it is certainly possible for the change in MP protocols to see things like this if the packet is truncated because it is too large... some craft send a lot of data over MP...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby V12 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:09 am

I have 2017.3.1. and P51D downloaded via launcher. I made another tests and obtain fire / smoke only when with property browser manualy changed engine's property serviceable from true to false...
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:29 am

so apparently the problem is fixed as reported :)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby V12 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:55 am

OK.
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby OK-F » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:14 pm

So for Jomo the plane is still burning. He said he is using the latest FG release. He downloaded the P 51 with Richard fix.. still burning. I was quite surprised. He downloaded the plane from Flightgear website the date is 6th April so it should be the updated version right?

Is the updated version both on FG wiki addon website and Flightgear web directory? it is right? He mentioned that the unpacked file shows still the date 19th feb. Dont know if that is relevant or not. thx He also mentioned that he is using some kind of special program along with FG dont know what he meant.
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:15 am

1. it won't show up until the aircraft archives are refreshed.
2. all of the official craft come from basically one place. the various mirrors are all synced to the master.
3. the update appeared here when we updated our copy of the FGAddon repository... that was done at 2018 Apr 6 13:38 -0400.
4. AFAICT, the only file that was modified is %FGADDON%/Aircraft/p51d/Models/P-51D-25-NA.xml
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby swampthing » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:04 am

I may be late in the game on this but the last time I flew the P-51 there was way too much p factor taking off, it was almost as if the plane was made of balsa wood. Its an easy fix and I meant to send it to onox to pass on to danny93 but I had a complete system failure and it was never passed on. If this is still a problem I would be happy to send the tables the need to be added to the JSBsim FDM.
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby dany93 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:57 am

Thank you for your proposal but...

At taking off, p-factor is not predominant, this is mainly due to spiralling propwash.
I only have a limited experience on ultralights, but every ultralight I've piloted had this, more or less strong. Enough to get you out of the runway if you don't counteract correctly. And the P-51D engine is much more powerful.
According to RL pilots, C172P features this too. Like every single engine aircraft, I think.

Look at this "P-51D Mustang "Ferocious Frankie", observe the rudder movements around 0:20".

Also look at "On Board Mustang Sally - North American P-51D Mustang" (from 0:45").

You can see that keeping control of a RL Mustang is not a game for beginners.

Or this other one (look at the feet at the beginning, and how he progressively increases throttle).
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby OK-F » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:27 pm

Hey swampthing you're definitely not late at the party. The FDM is already very good but still needs work. I think the spiralling factor is done very good at this aircraft. I can speak only for myself and I'm only pilot no developer. What I think so far after several hours in the cockpit of the Mustang. The plane feels 'light' like it's made of popcorn. Especially at take off which is more difficult to make right then landing oh dear sometimes the left wing drops several times i don't know maybe 40 degrees in a millisecond like the plane has no weight at all. Or the wing just drops right after I get the wheels off the tarmac stays there, with no reason. When taxiing at throttle idle the bird is achieving almost 40 knots. When I saw videos of P51 taxiing the plane was not gaining speed at idle and it felt much more heavy and slower.
Last edited by OK-F on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:26 pm

@OK-F, this could be due to your joystick being real sensitive but having a small ""blank"" spot or two...

what kind of joystick are you using?
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby OK-F » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:34 pm

Thrustmaster hotas x, I can not set the blind spot at FG can I

Thats the FG xml

<desc>Rudder</desc>
-<binding>

<command>property-scale</command>

<property>/controls/flight/rudder</property>

<power type="double">1.0</power>

</binding>
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:56 pm

is that a custom xml for your hotas?

if it is, i think, if i'm going the right way, that you can set that "power" value to 0.5 and cut the sensitivity in half... you'll have to move the stick twice as far as you do now for the rudder... if that increases the sensitivity and makes it too strong, then set it to 2.0 and see if that cuts it in half...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby OK-F » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:57 pm

Yes that's the XML in FG input directory.
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Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:11 pm

ok, that's why i asked if it was custom... have you used the joystick settings tool inside the sim? if not, then we'll make a copy of that file in another directory and then edit that part for FG to use to see if it helps you or not... are you running winwhatever, macos, or one of the linuxes? which one you are using will tell us which directory to place the file in...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Callsign: wk42
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OS: Kubuntu 20.04

Re: P-51D stall and spin: make it milder at takeoff and land

Postby OK-F » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:36 pm

I am on WIN. Yes I have used the Joystick setting in FG. So I set 0.5 in XML file in the input directory and it should work now right?
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