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Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby Thorsten » Thu May 07, 2015 3:52 pm

A very very very junior members with sod all experience


I think I've explained this to you before - I have understood equations of motion and computational fluid dynamics long before even dealing with FG. It's stuff I have taught to students. All I've had to learn is how to use JSBSim syntax to apply it.

But see, you'll always find a reason to argue why I shouldn't discuss flight dynamics. Rather than watch and learn something new :-)

The problem with the list you mention is that it is based on putting in numbers in the fdm. Who on earth is going to check if all the numbers are put in right?


That's a misunderstanding I think. You don't put an approach or stall speed into the FDM - you put lift and drag coefficient functions, and if you did it correctly, the right approach speed comes out. If the pilot's handbook says you should touch down with 140 kt and you can't, you know the FDM is wrong even without checking the numbers which were put in.

(Edit: Well, you do in YaSim, but that should not ever get a rating above 3 by the very design of YaSim, because it makes so many features generic)

There are developers that claim (and probably did) put in all the numbers.


Yeah, though there's the catch with imperial vs. SI units, deg vs. rad,... so putting it in correctly is a different matter. Also, you may not have all the numbers, and the numbers you have may not apply to the region you're interested in - say I have aerodynamics at Mach 1 - the tables are unlikely to result in the correct approach speed because I'd need a table at a much lower Mach number. Or the numbers may be correct for zero AoA, but not for 20 deg - again this spoils your approach speed. So you have to understand what the numbers mean in order to use them.

So the question is not about putting numbers in you got from somewhere, the rating criterion actually judges whether the resulting flight dynamics agrees with what the handbook says or not.

Which is to say, your practical test is quite sufficient for what you want to do. Let me re-iterate that I think you can apply all your criteria within the existing scheme and argue that a plane should be rated below 2.
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby Johan G » Thu May 07, 2015 3:56 pm

IAHM-COL wrote in Thu May 07, 2015 3:22 pm:Several sound files are stereo. It seems that FGFS sound engine does not understand this, and disregards the sound file outputting a verbose error to the log. Easy fix is to change these files to mono (by replacing them). That's quite a paper cut thingy there.

Indeed. And it is rather old at that. :roll: See for example this 2011 bug report #515 and mailing list thread [Flightgear-devel] Stereo sound files and affected aircraft.

IAHM-COL wrote in Thu May 07, 2015 3:22 pm:In the other hand a more complex fix would be altering the FGFS sound rendering engine to use the stereo, and I don't know if this should be actually a more preferable fix, but "that's there"

The issue with stereo seem to be that the underlying 3D sound engine will not work with stereo files. In essence no Doppler, no sound 'placement', no distance attenuation etc. (See above linked dev list thread.)
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby IAHM-COL » Thu May 07, 2015 4:00 pm

Thanks Johan
Will look for your references.

Let me get if I get you correctly: you said that the 3d sound engine does not work with stereo files? that sounds like a contradiction to me. If other software can render 3d stereo sound files, why cant that be "FG-Implemented?"

I will need the "answer for dummies" on this one thou.

But again the situation is:
* Paper cut fix: Get Bugman to hunt the bug. Transferring Stereo=>Mono in the FGAddon recursively
* Real fix: Improve FG engine to use Stereo files. It does not "sound" theoretically impossible for me here. But my knowledge in sound software == zero, and I don't do core development either.

PS: The problem with the "paper cut fix" is that going from stereo->Mono represents loose of data from the perspective of sound encoding-decoding.
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby Necolatis » Thu May 07, 2015 4:11 pm

It does not make sense to have stereo files, in a 3D environment IMO.

I would say it works quite correctly. A mono soundsource is placed somewhere in the 3D environment, and a resulting stereo (or surround) sound is produced in your speakers, depending on where you are, your speed and how you are rotated in regard to the mono source.

How would you render a stereo file in a 3D environment anyway? Then you would need to specify a rotation for the source itself and similar convoluted stuff, sounds strange to me unless it is marked as an avionics, with no position.

Its quite standard in 3D sound rendering to have mono only as input in my experience.
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby IAHM-COL » Thu May 07, 2015 4:14 pm

Thanks Necolatis.
I think I see where the situation comes from now :)
[maybe]

So I guess, getting the sound files transferred to mono (the paper cut fix) is maybe (by Johan and your opinion) the way to go here. Maybe Bugman can hunt this bug graciously :D

Best,
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby Johan G » Thu May 07, 2015 4:16 pm

One of the suggested interim solutions in the thread I mentioned would be mixing down the stereo files on the fly while loading an aircraft into FlightGear.[1]
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby IAHM-COL » Thu May 07, 2015 4:20 pm

Well. that just increases computation requirements during execution/running. If stereo files won't be used, its probably just better de-coding them back to mono, and get rid of the unneeded stereo data.
And as I say, @bugman can just ran a pair of commands over the FGAddon repository, to get this clean up.

If it's this simple of a "paper cut" cleaning, I can't figure out why not just do it.

also, it would not be an interim but a finalized solution too. And one, that does not involve altering the source code of FG to mix 3d files on the flight. Besides, it would be a fix that works backwards compatible. Vs altering the code to just mix files will be a solution only looking forward.
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby KL-666 » Thu May 07, 2015 4:41 pm

Hi Thorsten,

Handbooks are not a panacea. They might state: at fl x you may expect climb rate a, at fl y expect climb rate b, etc... Now what will a smart ass developer do? He will cap climb rates at the given flight levels.

Now i test that plane and find out the climb rates do not react to getting into thinner air, but to flicking a climb rate switch at given flight levels. I'd say the fdm is insane and give it less than a 2. But the developer can rightfully claim: Look the climb rates are right at every flight level.

So i still hold up that it is important to actually fly the plane and have well defined tests that i.e. state that such switch flicking behaviour is not acceptable. They should not be my personal tests only.

Kind regards, Vincent
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby Thorsten » Thu May 07, 2015 4:57 pm

So i still hold up that it is important to actually fly the plane and have well defined tests that i.e. state that such switch flicking behaviour is not acceptable. They should not be my personal tests only.


Sure... the problem is if you try to codify common sense, you end up creating a really long list of things that aren't acceptable :-) Think of all the unphysical things that could be potentially coded! Common sense is always hard to put into rules. So I don't think you can make much progress trying to formalize it.
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby bugman » Thu May 07, 2015 5:09 pm

I am aware of the stereo sound problem. I have encountered many such error messages as I have been going through the FGAddon fleet. This stereo sound problem is a little more than a paper cut bug. There is such a diversity of *.wav files that aircraft designers use:

Code: Select all
[edward@localhost Aircraft]$ find -name "*.wav" -exec file {} \; | sed "s/.*://g" | sort -u
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, IMA ADPCM, mono 22050 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft ADPCM, mono 22050 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 11025 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 12000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 16000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 22049 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 22050 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 22500 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 24000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 25050 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 32000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 4000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 44100 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 48000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 8000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 96000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 11025 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 24000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 8000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 32 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 11025 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 12000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 13025 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 16000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 22050 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 24000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 32000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 44100 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 5747 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 7520 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 8000 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 11025 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
 RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, stereo 44100 Hz
 floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
 floppy with old FAT filesystem, Media descriptor 0xfa
[edward@localhost Aircraft]$ find -name "*.wav" -exec file {} \; | grep -v mono | sort
./717/Sounds/cabinalert.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./717/Sounds/flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 8000 Hz
./717/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./737-300/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./747-400/Sounds/FastenSeatbelt.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./747-400/Sounds/Flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 8000 Hz
./747-400/Sounds/beeper.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./747-400/Sounds/climb.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./747-400/Sounds/descend.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./747-400/Sounds/engine-start.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 32 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./747-400/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./747-8i/Sounds/climb.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./747-8i/Sounds/descend.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/Cabin/arrival.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/Cabin/climbing.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/Cabin/descending.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/Cabin/emergency.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/Cabin/music.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/Cabin/music2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/Cabin/pretakeoff.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/Cabin/seatbelt.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./767-300/Sounds/whine2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
./787/Sounds/Flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 8000 Hz
./787/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./A320-family/Sounds/cabinalert.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./A320-family/Sounds/flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 8000 Hz
./A320-family/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/Flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/captain.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/cruising.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/decending.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/emergency.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/music.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/music2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/seatbelt.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/tenthousand.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./A340-600/Sounds/whine2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
./A380/Sounds/triple-click_01.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem, Media descriptor 0xfa
./ATR-72-500/Sounds/cabinalert.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Aichi-D3A/Sounds/canopy_slide.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Aichi-D3A/Sounds/flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Aichi-D3A/Sounds/gear.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Aichi-D3A/Sounds/propeller.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Aichi-D3A/Sounds/rpm2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Aichi-D3A/Sounds/shutdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Aichi-D3A/Sounds/start.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Aichi-M6A/Sounds/canopy_slide.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Alouette-II/Sounds/TC1.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./Boeing-247/Sounds/flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Bombardier-415/Sounds/flaps-ancien1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Bombardier-415/Sounds/gear-up-ancien1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./CRJ-200/Sounds/Flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 8000 Hz
./CRJ-200/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Convair-XFY-1-Pogo/Sounds/wind.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./D520/Sounds/canopy_slide.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./D520/Sounds/merlin_rpm1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./DG-101G/Sounds/airbrakes-lock.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./DG-101G/Sounds/airbrakes2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./DG-101G/Sounds/left-wing-tip.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./DG-101G/Sounds/right-wing-tip.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./DG-101G/Sounds/tail-wing-tip.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./DG-101G/Sounds/winch_release.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./DO-X/Sounds/cmd-ding.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Deuche/Sounds/running.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Deuche/Sounds/start.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/ASZ-62IRM18int.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/BatteryStart.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/ButtonFlaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/ButtonLights.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/ButtonPower.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/ButtonRadio.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/Cessna150Flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/DoorClosed.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/DoorOpen.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Dromader/Sounds/RudderPedalNoise.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Fairchild-Metroliner/Sounds/flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Fairchild-Metroliner/Sounds/gear-up.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Fw61/Sounds/heli.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 11025 Hz
./Gee-Bee/Sounds/BaBoOn-Gee-Bee-Ground_contact.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./Gee-Bee/Sounds/BaBoOn-Gee-Bee-Prop-ancien1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Grumman-American-AA1/Sounds/dr400-engine.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Grumman-American-AA1/Sounds/dr400-prop.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Grumman-American-AA1/Sounds/dr400-stall.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Grumman-American-AA1/Sounds/dr400-starter.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Grumman-American-AA1/Sounds/dr400-wind.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Horten-Ho-IX/Sounds/canopy_slide-ancien1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./JA37/Sounds/RB-24J.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./JA37/Sounds/roar-low.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./Jaguar/Sounds/gunfire-ancien1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Lockheed-Vega/Sounds/running.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./ME-209-V1/Sounds/canopy_slide.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./MiG-21bis/Sounds/Samples/bomb_away.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./MiG-21bis/Sounds/Samples/rocket_away.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./MiG-21bis/Sounds/Samples/stall.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Mil-Mi-12/Sounds/TC1.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./Mil-Mi-24/Sounds/rocket_away.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./MirageIV/Sounds/BaBoOn-mirageIV-Sonic-Boom.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./MirageIV/Sounds/BaBoOn-mirageIV-Tire-Squeal.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./MirageIV/Sounds/BaBoOn-mirageIV-Turbine1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./MirageIV/Sounds/BaBoOn-mirageIV-Turbine2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./MirageIV/Sounds/BaBoOn-mirageIV-Wind.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Nakajima-B5N/Sounds/canopy_slide.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Nakajima-B5N/Sounds/flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Nakajima-B5N/Sounds/gear.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Nakajima-B5N/Sounds/propeller.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Nakajima-B5N/Sounds/rpm2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Nakajima-B5N/Sounds/shutdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Nakajima-B5N/Sounds/start.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Nieuport-11/Sounds/starter-ancien1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./OH-58D/Sounds/Missile.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./PC-12/Sounds/stall.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./PC-6/Sounds/crash.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 11025 Hz
./Pioneer-200/Sounds/dr400-engine.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Pioneer-200/Sounds/dr400-prop.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Pioneer-200/Sounds/dr400-stall.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Pioneer-200/Sounds/dr400-starter.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Pioneer-200/Sounds/dr400-wind.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Polikarpov-I16/Sounds/gunsfire.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./R44/Sounds/BaBoOn-R44-Flotteur.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./RV-6A/Sounds/dr400-engine.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./RV-6A/Sounds/dr400-prop.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./RV-6A/Sounds/dr400-stall.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./RV-6A/Sounds/dr400-starter.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./RV-6A/Sounds/dr400-wind.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Saunders-Roe-Princess/Sounds/gear-up.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Sikorsky-S58/Sounds/TC1.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./SpaceShuttle/Sounds/flaps-backup1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 8000 Hz
./SpaceShuttle/Sounds/touchdown-backup1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Spitfire/Sounds/gunshot.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
./Su-25/Sounds/Samples/Missile.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./Su-25/Sounds/Samples/Stall.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Super-Frelon/Sounds/TC1.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./Tecnam-P2006T/Sounds/Rotax912-Ground_contact.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./Tecnam-P2010/Sounds/Rotax912-Ground_contact.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Click.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Door_close.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Door_open.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Explosion.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Ground_contact.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Prop.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Rumble.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Tire-Squeal.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Tecnam-P92/Sounds/BaBoOn-P92-Wind.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./UH-1/Sounds/Missile.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./UH-1/Sounds/TC1.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./UH-60/Sounds/TC1.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./VMX22-Osprey/Sounds/Flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 8000 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Antennas-Extraction.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Brake-Chute-Extraction.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Fairings-Separation.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-G-Cracking.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Inernal-Fans.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Landing-Engine.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 24000 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Main-Chute-Extraction.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Radiators-Turn.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Stage-1-2-Engines-External.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Stage-1-2-Engines-Internal.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Stage-1-Separation.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Stage-2-Separation.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Stage-3-Engine.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-Stage-3-Separation.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-TDU-Engine-Once.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-TDU-Engine.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Vostok-1/Sounds/Vostok-1-TDU-Separation.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz
./Westland-Whirlwind/Sounds/running1-ancien1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./YS-11/Sounds/flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./YS-11/Sounds/gear-up.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./YS-11/Sounds/running.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./Yak-36/Sounds/Flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 8000 Hz
./an2/Sounds/an2_flaps.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./an24b/Sound/Engine/AI-24_Prop2-1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./an24b/Sound/Engine/AI-24_Prop2-2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./an24b/Sound/Engine/AI-24_Starter.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./an24b/Sound/Engine/AI-24_xProp1-3.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./an24b/Sound/Engine/AI-24_xProp2-1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./an24b/Sound/Engine/AI-24_xProp2-2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./an24b/Sound/Engine/AI-24_xProp2-3.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./an24b/Sound/Engine/AI-24_xStarter.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./an24b/Sound/Systems/24roll.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./apache/Sounds/apache.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, stereo 44100 Hz
./asw20/Sounds/tail-wing-tip.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./dc8-63/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./dc8-73/Sounds/touchdown.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./ec130/Sounds/TC1.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./ec130/Sounds/ec135_shut_ec_out.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 11025 Hz
./eurofighter/Sounds/Samples/canopy-close2.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./harrier/Sound/20mm-guns.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 11025 Hz
./harrier/Sound/guns.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 11025 Hz
./mosquito/Sounds/canopy_slide.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./rallye-MS893/Sounds/MS893A_star1.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
./superguppySGT/Sounds/running.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44100 Hz
./victor/Sounds/jet2.wav: floppy with old FAT filesystem 320k, Media descriptor 0xff
./victor/Sounds/victor-gear.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, stereo 22050 Hz
[edward@localhost Aircraft]$


Anyway, this would have to be carefully done by hand, aircraft-by-aircraft. If the two channels have non-identical contents, deliberately made by the aircraft author(s) to emulate a 3D sound effect before the introduction of the awesome 3D sound engine, then it should be split into a *-left.wav and *-right.wav and set them as two different sources for the 3D sound engine to handle. This will need input from the original aircraft developer, or a new aircraft developer if they cannot be found, to correctly place the sound in the 3D space. This is what makes this more than just a trivial fix, or paper cut bug.

Otherwise if the channels are identical (which will probably be the case for most of these files), then one channel can be dumped and the file converted to mono. I'll put this in the paper-cut list, and bring it up on the flightgear-devel mailing list later on for discussions (where any modelling vs. core design discussions should take place).

Cheers,

Edward
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby IAHM-COL » Thu May 07, 2015 5:12 pm

I think the situation of moving to mono is not as complicated as you state above Ed.
In any case letting the "separation" of channels go away on the conversion by mixing into one single channel. (instead of "dumping one of the channels!)

I would recommend using ffmpeg decoder for a batch task. instead of approaching this on a per-aircraft/per-developer basis.

Code: Select all
ffmpeg -i $mono.wav -ac 1  stereo.wav; mv stereo.wav $mono.wav -v
#here $mono reffers to the basename of the file to be converted.


I believe you can use ffmpeg to analyze whether there are differences in the channels, but as others had stated above, FG does nothing with that info in the first place, and I would not dare to assume that channels differences here really were a "designed" strategy. (yet they could have, but I would be surprised!)
Last edited by IAHM-COL on Thu May 07, 2015 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby KL-666 » Thu May 07, 2015 5:18 pm

Hi Thorsten,

So I don't think you can make much progress trying to formalize it.


Maybe you are right. I just thought to give it a try and see if anyone comes up with some brilliant ideas about this.

Your take on the feasibility of such project is clear :-)

Kind regards, Vincent
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby bugman » Thu May 07, 2015 5:21 pm

The an2 aircraft is one such complex example. The two channels of the flightgear-fgaddon/Aircraft/an2/Sounds/an2_flaps.wav file are clearly different. However in Systems/an2-sound.xml we have:

Code: Select all
  <flap>
     <name>flaps</name>
     <mode>in-transit</mode>
     <path>Aircraft/an2/Sounds/an2_flaps.wav</path>
     <property>/surface-positions/flap-pos-norm</property>
     <volume>
        <factor>0.4</factor>
     </volume>
     <reference-dist>10.0</reference-dist>
     <max-dist>20.0</max-dist>
  </flap>


So the original intent of the aircraft author is required to determine how this should be handled.
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby LesterBoffo » Thu May 07, 2015 5:26 pm

IAHM-COL wrote in Thu May 07, 2015 3:22 pm:@bugman

Dear Ed.
I have a paper cut bug you can pass yourself over the FGADDon

Several sound files are stereo. It seems that FGFS sound engine does not understand this, and disregards the sound file outputting a verbose error to the log. Easy fix is to change these files to mono (by replacing them). That's quite a paper cut thingy there.

IH-COL


I actively make it a part of my check-in of planes in my FG aircraft folder to 'de-stereoize the sound files I find not working in FG. I also make an attempt to make sure planes I release have their .wav's as monaural.

I'm guessing the reason stereo files aren't used anymore is because there's the ALS sound fix for FG that allows one to 'place' the sound file within an aural 'heading' to the viewer, by doctoring the sound file's XYZ position in the Sounds folder's .xml.

A lot of these stereo files can be traced to pre- FG 2.8 aircraft
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Re: Looking for aircraft with 'paper cut' bugs

Postby bugman » Thu May 07, 2015 5:27 pm

IAHM-COL wrote in Thu May 07, 2015 5:12 pm:I think the situation of moving to mono is not as complicated as you state above Ed.
In any case letting the "separation" of channels go away on the conversion by mixing into one single channel. (instead of "dumping one of the channels!)


For mixing two different channels, which will probably be much rarer than an accidental stereo file with the same content in both channels, I would feel far more comfortable contacting the original aircraft authors. There are different ways to mix two channels into one, and the authors may not like the effect of simply averaging. Or the authors may prefer to split this into two files and place these in different positions in their aircraft. Or they may prefer the sound of channel 1 compared to channel 2 and therefore wish to dump channel 2.

Regards,

Edward
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