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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:51 pm

Matuchkin wrote in Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:07 pm:At this point, I can only wonder whether it will be possible to create a replica of the Redsone. Or, even better, the R7.



I'd imagine that the Mercury Redstone would have a lot of data available on NASA. Given that the PGM-11 original Redstone is a military weapon, it may not have so much data. The early R7's definitely wouldn't have much data, unless the USSR declassified a lot of data - however, we do have a Vostok (a variant of the R7) right now, seemingly rather similar to the Soyuz-FG currently in use.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:06 pm

Just reporting an error here.
When I pressed EXEC in order to commence the OMS-2 burn, I got a ENTRY ILLEGAL warning.
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>

<PropertyList>
  <valid-flag type="bool">false</valid-flag>
  <latitude-deg type="double">-31.43424373</latitude-deg>
  <longitude-deg type="double">135.2917982</longitude-deg>
  <altitude-ft type="double">583089.8044</altitude-ft>
  <pitch-deg type="double">0.6923461799</pitch-deg>
  <heading-deg type="double">83.14195956</heading-deg>
  <roll-deg type="double">-177.1158981</roll-deg>
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  <vBody-fps type="double">1259.134089</vBody-fps>
  <wBody-fps type="double">-383.9471476</wBody-fps>
  <description type="string">Bug: when hitting EXEC to begin
OMS2 burn, get ILLEGAL ENTRY
</description>
  <tank1-level-lbs type="double">0</tank1-level-lbs>
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  <tank9-level-lbs type="double">1290.905959</tank9-level-lbs>
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  <tank18-level-lbs type="double">0</tank18-level-lbs>
  <tank19-level-lbs type="double">0</tank19-level-lbs>
  <throttle type="double">0</throttle>
  <throttle n="1" type="double">0</throttle>
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  <engine-run type="double">0</engine-run>
  <engine-run n="1" type="double">0</engine-run>
  <engine-run n="2" type="double">0</engine-run>
  <MET type="double">3577.766667</MET>
  <state type="double">2</state>
  <umbilical-state type="double">1</umbilical-state>
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  <hydraulics-state type="double">0</hydraulics-state>
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  <control-mode type="double">20</control-mode>
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  <major-mode-bfs type="double">104</major-mode-bfs>
  <control-string type="string">RCS ROT DAP-A</control-string>
  <guidance-mode type="double">0</guidance-mode>
  <landing-site type="string">Kennedy Space Center</landing-site>
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  <idp2-bfs-major-function type="double">1</idp2-bfs-major-function>
  <idp3-switch-pos type="double">1</idp3-switch-pos>
  <idp3-bfs-major-function type="double">1</idp3-bfs-major-function>
  <idp4-switch-pos type="double">1</idp4-switch-pos>
  <idp4-bfs-major-function type="double">1</idp4-bfs-major-function>
  <gpc1-mcc type="double">1</gpc1-mcc>
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  <gpc4-mcc type="double">1</gpc4-mcc>
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  <gpc2-mode-switch type="double">1</gpc2-mode-switch>
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  <nbat-launch1 type="double">1</nbat-launch1>
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  <nbat-pl1 type="double">0</nbat-pl1>
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  <nbat-mm1 type="double">1</nbat-mm1>
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  <nbat-crt1 type="double">1</nbat-crt1>
  <nbat-crt2 type="double">2</nbat-crt2>
  <nbat-crt3 type="double">3</nbat-crt3>
  <nbat-crt4 type="double">2</nbat-crt4>
  <nbat-crt-sm1 type="double">4</nbat-crt-sm1>
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  <nbat-crt-sm3 type="double">4</nbat-crt-sm3>
  <nbat-crt-sm4 type="double">4</nbat-crt-sm4>
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  <temperature n="14" type="double">301.2815222</temperature>
  <hyd-circ-pump1 type="double">-1</hyd-circ-pump1>
  <hyd-circ-pump2 type="double">-1</hyd-circ-pump2>
  <hyd-circ-pump3 type="double">-1</hyd-circ-pump3>
  <heater-fwd-A type="double">0</heater-fwd-A>
  <heater-fwd-B type="double">0</heater-fwd-B>
  <heater-left-A type="double">0</heater-left-A>
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  <heater-oms-right-B type="double">0</heater-oms-right-B>
  <heater-oms-xfeed-A type="double">0</heater-oms-xfeed-A>
  <heater-oms-xfeed-B type="double">0</heater-oms-xfeed-B>
  <timestring type="string">2018-3-1-20:04</timestring>
</PropertyList>


Perhaps it was that I set the timer for (I believe) 1min02 seconds after TTA by accident... does Space Shuttle check that?

Please advise what other information you need to troubleshoot ;)
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:47 am

When I pressed EXEC in order to commence the OMS-2 burn, I got a ENTRY ILLEGAL warning.


There's a number of conditions checked, but generally you can do the burn whenever you like, TTA doesn't come in (it may not be a good idea to do burns at certain times, but that's a different matter).

Was the EXEC string flashing in the display?

Were you in burn attitude?

Were you pressing EXEC on the right keyboard (i.e. the one currently talking to the MNVR EXEC display? Were you by chance looking at a BFS display?

Were you in MNVR EXEC rather than MNVR COAST (I changed that fairly recently to be more realistic)?

Did you by chance try PEG-4 targets (they're only implemented for de-orbit right now)?

I have experienced similar things a handful of times during test flights - in 4/5 cases there was something I had overlooked, but some instances I could never trace down. So is there a way to reliably reproduce the issue?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:45 pm

I'll be trying another launch shortly ;)

EXEC - no, it was not flashing.
BURN ATT - I set DAP AUTO, so I expect so...
BFS: no, I did not use it
I had loaded OPS 105 PRO: all three displays showed it. I was using the top left display: the keyboard was talking to it. All three displays showed ILLEGAL ENTRY, as far as I remember.
MNVR COAST: I have no idea. I simple loaded OPS 105.

PEG-4 targets: no.


Actually, I believe I may have missed this:
First, we gonna enter some trim angle for the OMS engine, in yaw and pitch. Item 6 to 8 Trim angle (in yaw mainly) allow good gimbals of the OMS. Resultant trust forces will be parallels to the X bodys axis,containing the Center of Gravity (for a 2 engines burn)

I'm not entirely sure what I was meant to enter, so I left it.

I was increasing my orbit by approx. 200 ft/sec.

I'll try it again and report ;)
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:48 pm

Thorsten wrote in Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:38 pm:The offline orbital targeting tool is making reasonable progress, I've now benchmark-tested the core numerics and done some utility code.

The configuration is done via writing a config file with an ascii editor and invoking the program from the commandline. The output is either written to console or, if requested, dumped into a data file.


Regarding this tool, do you input the output of this tool into the software of the Shuttle -- and I take it the dev version only?
FYI I'm using milestone 9 FGADDON ;)
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:35 pm

EXEC - no, it was not flashing.
BURN ATT - I set DAP AUTO, so I expect so...


Okay... engines will never ignite when EXEC is not flashing, so we're down to why it wasn't flashing. The Shuttle won't automatically move into burn attitude unless item 27 is executed, so the question is, did you do that?

Also, the ADI shows attitude error needles when a burn program is active, so you should be able to tell whether all error needles are centered and you're in attitude or not.

Regarding this tool, do you input the output of this tool into the software of the Shuttle -- and I take it the dev version only?


Pretty much - and yes, milestone 9 does not come with PEG targeting - but also not with trim angles.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:08 pm

Thank you.
Right, regarding item 27, I'm fairly sure I did not do that. I only created the soloution and started the timer... I did not execute Item 27 as far as I know.
However, the Shuttle did do a rotation when I set DAP AUTO. However, as I rolled the shuttle upside down manually after MECO (i.e. heads up position, as opposed to heads down position adopted by launch guidance), perhaps it was restoring that attitude, not going to the OMS attitude as I thought.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:39 am

Okay, just to outline the sequence - there's two possibilities to do an OMS burn:

1) the quicker and dirty one (not realistic)

* enter burn target (items 19-21)
* load burn target (item 22)

-> the burn solution will be re-computed in every cycle for 'right now'

* to enable automatic maneuvering into attitude, enable item 27

* press AUTO DAP pushbutton to actually maneuver there, or use ADI needles to do it by hand

-> as soon as the Shuttle reaches within 10 deg of burn attitude, EXEC starts flashing and the burn starts when you depress it

2) the real procedure

* enter trim angles for the desired burn configuration, check orbiter weight

* enter TIG for the burn

* enter burn target (items 19-21)
* load burn target (item 22)

-> the burn solution will be computed only once for the TIG entered

* to switch the CRT timer to the burn, enable item 23


* to enable automatic maneuvering into attitude, enable item 27

* press AUTO DAP pushbutton to actually maneuver there, or use ADI needles to do it by hand

-> as soon as the Shuttle reaches within 10 deg of burn attitude and there are less than 10 seconds on the timer, EXEC starts flashing

* when you depress EXEC, the flashing stops, but the burn won't ignite till the timer reaches zero

-> if the burn does not ignite, probably there's a problem with the engine hardware, for instance engine switches may not be in ARM/PRESS position, or fuel valves may be closed - or you're not in a MM that has MNVR EXEC in the title, MM 104 can only be used for planning, you need MM 105 to actually operate the engine,...

(P.S.: May we assume your issues running the Shuttle have been resolved?)
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:44 pm

My issues reported 3-4 months ago, are indeed resolved.
Thank you for your help.
Presuming that the TIG and trim are given by your orbital tool?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:40 am

TIG depends on what you want to do - for OMS-2 insertion, it's basically at the apsis, so you take MET and add TTA and subtract a minute for a circularization burn. For OMS-1, it's MECO + 120 seconds or so. Only for de-orbit it needs to be targeted for good ranging - you can ask mission-control in-sim for the parameters, that'll get you within 100 miles or so. Only if you need some 10 mile precision you need the numerics.

Trim angles depend on how many engines you want to use for the burn - basically the angles are moved to the trim angles 10 seconds before the burn and ignite in that position, so they should fire through the CoG or you get transients when they trim during the burn (the gimbals are not that fast) - but the position of thrust axis through the CoG is different for a 2 engine and a 1 engine burn.

If you're doing two engine burns, you don't need to do anything in particular.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:58 pm

Image

It's pretty cool what one can do with canvas - I'm not only creating a photorealistic keyboard emulation but also I've managed to add clickspots to the cloned MDU windows such that they emulate the edgekeys as if the window were a touchscreen (i.e. you just click the menu options on the lower end of the screen and they do what they say - works only in window mode, not for the in-cockpit MDU, there you need to click the edgekey).
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:49 am

Yeah, this is really cool and the possibilities are staggering.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Hooray » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:50 am

Thorsten wrote in Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:58 pm:(i.e. you just click the menu options on the lower end of the screen and they do what they say - works only in window mode, not for the in-cockpit MDU, there you need to click the edgekey).


You are probably aware of this, but just for the sake of completeness, even the cockpit display can support event handling, it just has to be enabled - but it might be a little unexpected to use such an approach
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:57 am

Actually I specifically did /not/ want this for the cockpit display...
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Hooray » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:57 pm

That's what I was assuming, but the wording you used wasn't clear about it, so I just wanted to mention "for the sake of completeness", that even in-cockpit display can support canvas event handling, but that it would not be very intuitive to do so...
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