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Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172p")

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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:08 am

wlbragg wrote in Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:59 am:
Icing has to be enabled via the aircraft dialog.


Hey,
I recommend you change "complex engine procedures" to "allow engine icing", until more engine things are added, at least. It confused me for a bit, as to why my engine was failing as I didn't realize carb ice was simulated and it wasn't that cold!
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby wlbragg » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:05 pm

I can bring this up on the dev list. There is more to this setting that just the icing though. It also sets the reality settings to having to go through all the normal "real life" startup procedures.
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby wlbragg » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:11 pm

FlugHund wrote in Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:50 pm:Oy! 'sup with dual-control? Shall I remove that as a feature from the wiki page?


Is this no longer a feature? Sorry, I know nothing about it.
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby Octal450 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:28 pm

I had the chance to fly a C172P recently, and I noticed the FG version is way to sensitive on the flight controls. Also, the yoke animation is wrong in roll, it can turn until 90degrees.

My 2 cents

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:05 pm

wlbragg wrote in Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:05 pm:the normal "real life" startup procedures.



I'd love to see some documentation on how to operate the engine correctly, including leaning it properly. Do you have any at the moment?

And yes, I find it far too sensitive for manual flight over long distances. The induced yaw when turning is quite high.

it0uchpods wrote in Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:28 pm:I had the chance to fly a C172P recently,


Have you any pictures? :)
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby Octal450 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:49 pm

Have you any pictures? :)

Yes, but they contain my face, something which I do not allow on the internet.

J
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby FlugHund » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:12 pm

Well, removing dual-control as a feature of this craft from the wiki page then. It's easy to restore if it gets implemented again.

Right now the repo includes no trace of the dual-control feature at all[1]. There is a branch[2] which seems to be abandoned for years now, though.

[1] https://github.com/c172p-team/c172p-det ... ree/master
[2] https://github.com/c172p-team/c172p-det ... al-control
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby dany93 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:31 am

it0uchpods wrote in Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:28 pm:I had the chance to fly a C172P recently, and I noticed the FG version is way to sensitive on the flight controls. Also, the yoke animation is wrong in roll, it can turn until 90degrees.

Hi Josh,

The flight control efficiency is conditioned by:
- For the elevator, ability to reach the stall AoA (at least at idle regime),
- For the rudder and ailerons, ability to counteract a 15 kt crosswind (and to do a side-slipping, which is the same).

Yoke animation:
Should be easy to fix. 90 deg ? or a bit less ?

legoboyvdlp wrote in Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:05 pm:And yes, I find it far too sensitive for manual flight over long distances. The induced yaw when turning is quite high.

Hi legoboyvdlp,

Over long distances in manual control, do you use the elevator trim (and possibly aileron trim in FG) ? All the more useful on our JS with springs.
How do you measure a 'quite high' or 'normal' induced yaw? Do you use the rudder to counteract it when deflecting the ailerons?
Megginson's table give -0.022 (cruise) to -0.079 (approach) for CnDa. It is at -0.048.
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby Octal450 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:16 pm

Hi
Yoke animation should be 90, it'd pretty exactly IRL.
Be that as it may, its too sensitive.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:32 pm

dany93 wrote in Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:31 am:
legoboyvdlp wrote in Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:05 pm:And yes, I find it far too sensitive for manual flight over long distances. The induced yaw when turning is quite high.

Hi legoboyvdlp,

Over long distances in manual control, do you use the elevator trim (and possibly aileron trim in FG) ? All the more useful on our JS with springs.
How do you measure a 'quite high' or 'normal' induced yaw? Do you use the rudder to counteract it when deflecting the ailerons?


Hey there!
I just find that the nose swings quite a lot when you turn. When I add rudder, then remove it when turning out, it also happens.
As for trim, I haven't found the aileron trim key or cockpit control: do we have it? Elevator trim: I sometimes use it, and it does help.

But if it's supported by data and C172P experience, then it must be right :)


You do realize that data is for a 182, right?
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby dany93 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:57 pm

At my knowledge there is no aileron trim in the C172P (like in RL).
And no keyboard key in FG. No luck.

I have 2 buttons on my JS for this.
Code: Select all
 <button n="10">
  <desc>Aileron trim left</desc>
  <repeatable type="bool">true</repeatable>
  <binding>
   <command>property-adjust</command>
   <property>/controls/flight/aileron-trim</property>
   <step type="double">-0.001</step>
   <!-- <command>nasal</command>
   <script>controls.aileronTrim(-0.5)</script> -->
  </binding>
 </button>

 <button n="11">
  <desc>Aileron trim right</desc>
  <repeatable type="bool">true</repeatable>
  <binding>
   <command>property-adjust</command>
   <property>/controls/flight/aileron-trim</property>
   <step type="double">0.001</step>
   <!-- <command>nasal</command>
   <script>controls.aileronTrim(0.5)</script> -->
  </binding>
 </button>

In FG that's cheating for some aircraft, but the springs on our JS make this a lot more comfortable. You can almost leave your controls, just quietly correct a bit.

You do realize that data is for a 182, right?

Yes, but initially by David Megginson, almost all the values in the FDM were those from this table (C182). Still now for most of them. And I guess that he knows what he is speaking about.
Anyway, the values should not be **very** different. Through lack of wind tunnel data for the C172...
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:06 pm

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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby dany93 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:33 pm

Thank you, legoboyvdlp.
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby tonghuix » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:25 am

it0uchpods wrote in Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:16 pm:Hi
Yoke animation should be 90, it'd pretty exactly IRL.
Be that as it may, its too sensitive.

Kind Regards,
Josh


Yep, the yoke is too sensitive, especially at low airspeed, Please fix it, thank you very much!
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Re: Cessna 172P detailed (was "Cockpit textures for the c172

Postby dany93 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:14 am

Do someone else (especially C172 pilots) have this opinion?
If wished and justified, I can make tests to see if it can be decreased. One constraint is strong-crosswind landing and side-slipping.
NB: the current value for 'Roll_moment_due_to_aileron' (ClDa = 0.229) is the one given by Megginson, in accordance with his tables for the Cessna 182.

@tonghuix: is your JS accurate enough at low deflections? They sometimes give a step or noise near zero. Just for testing, did you try by controlling with the mouse?
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