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Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0  Topic is solved

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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby LesterBoffo » Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:08 am

Yeah I often post-process the .ac file by opening it in Windows Wordpad and making sure the RGB and Ambient are all "1 1 1" on the .png textured parts.
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby wlbragg » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:37 am

Good tip, thanks.

Here is the current state. I think I am close to getting to work on the inside and then some bells and whistles.

I'll push this a little later tonight, hopefully after I figure out how to get part of the back half of the fuselage in a "chrome" texture.

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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby Johan G » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:23 pm

This keeps getting better and better. Great work on the model. :D

Great scenery by the way.
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby abassign » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:08 pm

I entered the project in our FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/flightgearitalia, It truly is a wonderful project and I hope that the model will develop well, I have a certain temptation to change the FDM to put a brushless electric motors with battery buffer. Do you think it would make sense to test the configuration?

In flight over Bergamo LIME (Italy)

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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:31 pm

in the one photo above, the prop blur looks too much... doesn't the prop on this craft spin fairly slowly? only as fast as the human can make it go? i wonder what is the maximum they were able to get in the ""lab"" with a fresh human... maybe one who rides bicycles all the time...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby MIG29pilot » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:10 pm

What, no perspiring bloke in the seat pedaling away? :wink:
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby wlbragg » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:22 pm

abassign wrote in Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:08 pm:I have a certain temptation to change the FDM to put a brushless electric motors with battery buffer. Do you think it would make sense to test the configuration?

I would be OK with that as long as we make it an option in the GUI. Sounds like a good idea, I'm really tired of pedaling.

wkitty42 wrote in Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:31 pm:in the one photo above, the prop blur looks too much

I agree, I really am not sure how fast they get it going and what kind of blur, if any, that can be seen. I plan to modify that some what.

One option I plan to add is a "Realistic" choice in the GUI. What it will be is having to use space bar key taps to turn the propeller. I plan to make it so you get finger cramps if you want to fly very long.

Also a sweaty human model is in the future. :D

Thanks for all the feedback.
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby wlbragg » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:29 pm

abassign wrote in Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:08 pm:I have a certain temptation to change the FDM to put a brushless electric motors with battery buffer. Do you think it would make sense to test the configuration?

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea. Because, I don't like the fact that we can just hit a button and go. With a retrofit electric motor, that adds the realism of such a possibility existing. Then we can have the two choices, electric motor or peddle (space bar taps).

Oh, and @abassign, you need to pull the newest from fgaddon, the fuselage is finished and much improved over what you show in the pictures.
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:11 am

MIG29pilot wrote in Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:10 pm:What, no perspiring bloke in the seat pedaling away? :wink:

wait for it... :lol: ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby abassign » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:22 am

I noticed that the idea of a hybrid like tonight developing a prototype FDM jsbsim for a hybrid aircraft. Jsbsim is very suitable for these tests since it allows to build a chain of objects that can interact with each other in a continuous manner.

I think that the modules could be these:
  1. Conversion human effort into electrical current (95-90%?)
  2. Conversion electric current in drive torque to the propeller (95%)
  3. Conversion torque propeller thrust (90%)
  4. Extra-energy lithium battery for charging (90%)
  5. Management of the mix (1) with (2) resulting in discharge of lithium battery
  6. Energy recovery torsion propeller electricity when the driver wants to go down or if we are in flying condition thermal (80%?)

Add management of human effort as a function of stress diagrams that are obtained from the data of sports medicine.
I think the man who pedals can be seen as a battery that reduces its production capacity (instantaneous power) as a function of the effort made.
There are tables that describe these things, I think they are on the Web. The idea is that if I put the throttle to 100% does not mean it is at full power, but that the throttle is asking who is doing the pedaling maximum power! It is a very different concept and is a function of the history that has undergone the pedaling effort.

It would be useful to define the parameters that define the physical characteristics and the weight of the rider, in order to adapt the simulation to each member of us and maybe we can put a sound that gives the sense of fatigue ... ;)
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby wlbragg » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:04 am

There has to be one mode that is strictly mechanical as that is the reality of this aircraft.
So the first mode has to be mechanical peddle power. A menu choice for the original concept of the DaSH.

After that I think it is wide open because then we are in the r & d environment where we can create a hybrid any way we see fit.

For the hybrid then what you are suggesting sounds feasible. The battery would then have three methods of recharge, peddle power the wall plug and wind (under certain conditions). In essence we would have two versions of peddle power, because the hybrid (electrical) would still have the peddle available for power generation and a switch for pure peddle power if needed or power generation. At least that's how I would design it if my life were at stake.

In the background I think we can use a 2 engine concept, engine 0 would be driven by mechanical peddle power and engine 1 would be driven by our hybrid module system.

I'm going to devote my immediate future to finishing the model, some effects, start a GUI and complete the initial mechanical peddling system. We may want to discuss the peddling system as to optimize it to be adaptable to the electrical module portion and the mechanical. Also I am sure I could use you help to design the mechanical system in the jsbsim FDM in general. This is a first for me.

Feel free to dive in to this hybrid concept, I think it would be a real plus to have that 2nd choice of propulsion. If you do please keep in the back of your mind any parts of it that parallel the mechanical efforts that could be adapted to it.
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby wlbragg » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:05 am

abassign wrote in Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:22 am:It would be useful to define the parameters that define the physical characteristics and the weight of the rider, in order to adapt the simulation to each member of us and maybe we can put a sound that gives the sense of fatigue ... ;)

Absolutely, that was already on my agenda.
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby abassign » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:26 pm

It seems easy to make a hybrid aircraft ... but there are some problems :(

Jsbsim currently has the electric motor, but no batteries! To increase or decrease the power of the engine is used the throttle of the plane, someone says it is possible do it through NASAL, thanks! But how ?
If I try to change the throttle, this will immediately return to the value of the input device ... so I can not stop the engine! For the rest could use a variable that I impostasse the battery capacity and its effective capacity and in function of the consumption of the motor (which is given by the value of the throttle) to obtain the discharge of the battery.

Code: Select all
<electric_engine name="legs">
  <power unit="WATTS"> 1000 </power>
</electric_engine>


But I have only one parameter, which moreover seems to be also constant!
I then decided to do a simulated engine, so I made an engine that uses a fuel that has a specific gravity very low, almost zero, I tried, in the description of the tank, to insert the parameter:
Code: Select all
<density unit="KG/L">   0.000001 </density>

But it was as if it did not exist! In fact there is a contradiction, the tank is loaded in libre. So change the density is only to manage the change in center of gravity, then I could think of building an engine with a monstrous efficiency so as to have virtually no consumption, but it seems too complicated ... It is necessary only that the electric motor "is powered" get a parameter that is changed by only NASAL.
This solution exists, if so, how?
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Re: Dead Simple Human Powered Aircraft model v1.0

Postby wlbragg » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:24 pm

There are probably several ways to fake this but I think something like..

Use a relationship between fuel (battery reserve) and throttle (percentage of battery reserve that is left).

Does that make any sense?
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