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Engine wear

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Engine wear

Postby HJ1AN » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:52 am

Taking a cue from The Longest Flight :
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=16948

Where at the end of the 2 months the engine has worn out so much that it was barely able to climb, are any planes here that are built with engine wear in mind over time?

Obviously, nobody uses FG for 2 months, and also is there a way to save a flight state so I can continue the flight another time, if so, then over time engine wear will take its course.... just an idea. I think the Seneca has a overboost warning I'm wondering if it's the same thing.
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Re: Engine wear

Postby Johan G » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:25 am

Engine wear and an "<Aircraft> -> Maintenance" menu?

An interesting though that should not be impossible to implement. Could require some RT#M for the pilots with new wings though. Imagine hot and high conditions with an engine that should be up for maintenance. :twisted:

Nearest thing I have got to was pondering about creating a couple of mechanical cockpit clocks with eight-day manually wounded movements. I figured I would have had to make that optional. :wink: Unfortunately I have only tinkered with the models a bit now and then for perhaps three years now. I guess I am not fully as goal-driven as I perhaps could/should be... :roll:
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Re: Engine wear

Postby sanhozay » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:36 am

I've just done the Nasal code behind a Hobbs meter for the Cessna 337, which is not merged yet. It has a class that keeps track of flying time and this can be switched to engine running time (or a metric of your choice) simply by passing a different property tree path into the constructor. Multiple instances could be created for keeping track of the wear/runtime of multiple things. It doesn't have a reset method at the moment but that's trivial to add. It would probably do a lot of the back-end work behind your cockpit clocks -- it's just a different 3D model really.
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Re: Engine wear

Postby Hooray » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:46 am

This is being worked on by galvedro, who's hoping to have most of this finished in time for 3.2 - it's basically a framework for registering triggers and allowing different types of failures to be modeled.
See: http://wiki.flightgear.org/A_Failure_Ma ... FlightGear
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Re: Engine wear

Postby hvengel » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:26 pm

A generalized wear/failure system is a good thing because this goes beyond just engine wear. With a generalized system we should be able to model things like brake, tire, propeller wear just to name a few.
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Re: Engine wear

Postby Hooray » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:50 pm

right, and the other advantage is that this is going to be agnostic to the way it is controlled, i.e. there's a concept of a dedicated "failure manager", so that this can be hooked up to different front-ends, including a telnet/web-based front-end (e.g. instructor console), or even just an integrated Canvas/GUI dialog.
galvedro's code is looking really promising already!
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Re: Engine wear

Postby HJ1AN » Thu May 01, 2014 4:28 am

Sweet!


Of course when I say "engine.wear" I really meant general wear and tear. (Brakes come to mind too) And when I say nobody use fg for 2 months, I meant fly for 2 months straight...

Can't wait for t3.2 keep up the good work guys wish I could contribute programming, all respect for you developers
Last edited by HJ1AN on Thu May 01, 2014 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Engine wear

Postby Hooray » Thu May 01, 2014 4:37 am

there's an endless number of ways to contribute without programming, I am sure you'll find something that you find interesting.
And even programming isn't necessarily difficult - there are tiny projects all over the place, providing good options to get started with something simple
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Re: Engine wear

Postby HJ1AN » Fri May 02, 2014 12:45 am

Johan G wrote in Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:25 am:Imagine hot and high conditions with an engine that should be up for maintenance. :twisted:

Nearest thing I have got to was pondering about creating a couple of mechanical cockpit clocks with eight-day manually wounded movements.


Yup, the hot high and heavy conditions with an neglected old engine are exactly the kinds of stuff I'm thinking about. Perhaps a slider adjustment from badly maintained to tip top new condition, so we can experiment with "flying heap of junk" too. I'm don't know how planes are scheduled for maintenance, if anything like heavy machinery they are counted by hours? If so then several cross country flights and overworkking the engine could reduce the condition of the plane quick.
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Re: Engine wear

Postby Johan G » Sat May 03, 2014 10:36 am

HJ1AN wrote in Fri May 02, 2014 12:45 am:...so we can experiment with "flying heap of junk" too.

You mean something like this? :wink: :lol: (Though it is not a reciprocating engine.)
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Re: Engine wear

Postby 747sp » Sat May 03, 2014 11:55 am

Nice livery, but it looks a little strange.
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Re: Engine wear

Postby HJ1AN » Sat May 03, 2014 3:42 pm

Johan G wrote in Sat May 03, 2014 10:36 am:You mean something like this? :wink: :lol: (Though it is not a reciprocating engine.)


Haha! Neat. Yeah even if it's not reciprocating engine, it's still an engine (and airframe) subject to wear/tear. Just imagine the possibilities... "Your mission is to ferry heap of junk from airport A to airport B, all the while engine might not be up to stuff and random possibility of cutting out, with a leaking fuel tank, no heating, sticking/stuck flaps, elevators and aileron, balding tires and non existant brakes."
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Re: Engine wear

Postby ja sam niko » Sat May 03, 2014 4:37 pm

That reminds me of the "Dangerous Flights" series. Completely hilarious and freaking dangerous.

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Re: Engine wear

Postby galvedro » Sat May 03, 2014 5:26 pm

Hi there!

As Hooray mentioned, I am doing some work related to this. Wear, as a concept, will not be supported in the first drop of this development, but I would like to include it eventually as part of the system. What I would like to know from those of you who create aircraft models or have an opinion on the subject is: how would you expect such a feature to work?

(The question is intentionally very open, lets brainstorm a little :D)
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Re: Engine wear

Postby HJ1AN » Sun May 04, 2014 2:19 am

Hi galvedro!

First of all, my highest respect for you and others for taking your time and effort to make Flightgear so amazing. Unfortunately, as I have this idea, but I have no specifics (I am sure, programmers hear this all the time... sorry).

But.. here's my idea, let's start with something simple... let's say if you go full thrtottle the engine for long periods of time, flying from destination to destination, it will eventually come to a point where something may happen.... but in order to have that happen for example, we need to be able to save our fights, which we can continue for longer periods? (Or do we have that feature already? I'm sorry if we do, there are many things I have no figured out yet). Effectively, everytime you startup the sim and load the flight and jump into the plane the hours is counting down until and the longer you do so with 'that' particular plane then soon wear will set in, and depends on how we abuse the plane (using too much brakes every landing for e.g. makes those parts wear faster, engine run full too long = reduced performance, or worse case, overheat / shutoff) Make it default as anyone who wishes to save the flights and keep using the same plane will have to eventualy deal with this. Those who don't save their flights start out with planes in tip top condition anyway and won't be dealing with it (or optionally, a menu option for those, like some planes already have).

My 2 cents.
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