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DHC-6 Twin Otter development

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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby zacarias » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:02 pm

What's the difference between this version and the Patten version?
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby nuno.seletti » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:34 pm

asr wrote in Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:46 am:
nuno.seletti wrote in Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:46 am:Sorry but I have the same problèm :cry:

Have you played a little bit with the rendering settings? Maybe disable `rembrandt` or `ALS`

Yes i have made some modification in the parameters but the cockipt look the same, it doesn't change :(
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby nuno.seletti » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:36 pm

dg-505 wrote in Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:33 pm:Is there the possibility that you can update your FlightGear to the current version?

The Twin Otter has some features implementet which only work with newer FlightGear versions. These features make the aircraft incompatible with older versions.

Hello! Yes i have the 3.4.0 version, i don't have install the latest version, decause it's too complicated, my version works very good, and the latest version are not adapoted to my computer xD but i thinks yes that the problem is link with the version of fgfs!
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby wlbragg » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:40 pm

Yes i have the 3.4.0 version, i don't have install the latest version, decause it's too complicated

It could be very helpful concerning future version designs if you could describe the "complications" for you with the newer versions of FlightGear?

It really should be as easy as running install and starting the game.

Is it the new GUI or scenery issues or something else in particular you find more complicated?
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby Octal450 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:23 pm

I rewrote the AP for UsAir26, as he said it wasn't stable.

http://www.github.com/FGMEMBERS/dhc6

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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby Trennor_ » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:37 am

I have just downloaded the most recent version of the twin otter, and while it's still a great aeroplane, there are several things I want fix on it for my own flying. Please don't post justifications as to why any of this was done, please just give me the fixes for them and I'll say no more. You're the people who did all this; help me UNDO it in my own personal version.

1. Fixed field of view inside the cockpit. Where is that defined, and how do I change it to scroll in and out like any other aircraft? Cannot properly see the radio dials to set them in the cockpit.

2. Where do I get rid of the tie downs? How to disable them, please? Don't tell me to use Autostart; I still want to use start procedure but I don't want the hassle of tie downs, engine covers and pitot tubes.

Where I do fix these, and how? I've tried searching for how and where and have been unable to come up with anything about this at all.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:49 am

firstly let me say that "you're the people that did all this" is those folks that created this one craft... it was most likely done for realism... call that justification if you like but it is what it is... while i don't agree with restricting the ability to zoom in and out, other things related to realism i do tend to agree with but only up to a point...

loading the latest dev version of the sim, i used the internal --launcher and searched for DHC-6... the craft i found (in the official fgaddon hanger) is the DHC-6-300...

  1. on loading, i saw these errors in the console
    Code: Select all
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: inhgknob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: Hdg-Knob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: OBS-Knob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: KI206.knob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: KI206.knob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: ias.knob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: alt.knob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: vs.knob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: KnobMode-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: inhgknob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: Hdg-Knob-axis
    Could not find at least one of the following objects for axis animation: OBS-Knob-axis


  2. i, too, found that the scroll wheel for setting the FOV is not working like it should and like other craft... i'm not sure where this is being dealt with but the following files have something to do with mouse control or the field of view...
    Code: Select all
    dhc6/dhc6-mice.xml - this one has specific settings related to the z-offset
    dhc6/Systems/views.xml - this one starts off with a ""zoom enabled"" section


  3. a quick search for "tie" finds dhc6-set.xml has settings for *-tiedown-*... i suspect that you might comment those or change them from "1" to "0" to remove or unset them... not only those but also the engine covers and pitot covers... they're all in the xml files for the craft... depending on which craft you choose to fly, there are three variants, you may have to change these in more than one file...
that's a very quick first look without any testing for confirmation...

FWIW: hitting CTRL-C turns on the yellow clickable highlights which makes it much easier to see this items and click on them to remove them...

NOTE1: in the above paths, "dhc6" references the actual directory that you have the dhc6 installed into...

NOTE2: i've never tried to load or fly this craft... i found these options in just a few minutes (ie: less than 5)...

NOTE3: if you use the F10 menu in the sim, you can select the "DHC-6" sub-menu and in there you will find the "Securing" sub-sub-menu... that's where you can easily remove the chocks, tie downs, and covers... this is in the same menu where you find the flashlight, fuel truck and external power options...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby danten66 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:55 am

I zoom in and out all the time using X and Shift X with this plane. Is there another way to do this?
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:41 pm

in most all other craft you can simply roll the mouse wheel to zoom in and out... i did notice, though, that this craft uses the mouse wheel to set the trim for something so that might be part of the problem...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby Thorsten » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:46 pm

i did notice, though, that this craft uses the mouse wheel to set the trim for something so that might be part of the problem...


Hm, we probably shouldn't do that (override FG interface rather than FG aircraft default commands).
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby wlbragg » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:59 pm

I've struggled with this concept since I was first exposed to it. As programmer from way back I have always had the flexibility to do as I pleased and not conform to a standard (if I didn't choose to).
I struggle with this in FG somethings because I don't readily know when I should and should not do something.

Not to get this off topic, would something like assigning [t] key + mouse-scroll achieve the same ability without violating a default or standard convention?
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby danten66 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:28 am

Thorsten wrote in Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:46 pm:
i did notice, though, that this craft uses the mouse wheel to set the trim for something so that might be part of the problem...


Hm, we probably shouldn't do that (override FG interface rather than FG aircraft default commands).


I believe the Cessna 337 had the same behavior, and as it's two that I fly often, I have not noticed the zoom wheel.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby Thorsten » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:40 am

I struggle with this in FG somethings because I don't readily know when I should and should not do something.


Common sense really.

* Would it bother you if one aircraft uses 'g' to control gear, the second ctrl+g, the third f, yet another one no key but requires a clickspot? If the answer is yes, try to do as all the others do.

* Would it bother you if you control your plane with joystick and someone worked hard to make this near-impossible by re-mapping all controls such that they work best for keystrokes? If the answer is yes, take care that all control scenarios are equally supported.

* Would it bother you if you run an addon like FGCamera and a plane brings its own view manager and re-defines everything, making a mess? If the answer is yes, don't do it.

Basically planes shouldn't do tasks that the core provides - override rendering settings, make their own weather or environment, bring their own view manager,... it's really as simple as that.

Sometimes it is necessary to deviate from the pattern (like the gear of the plane is controlled in a completely different way), the core functionality provided is inadequate (happens a lot in spaceflight),...

Not to get this off topic, would something like assigning [t] key + mouse-scroll achieve the same ability without violating a default or standard convention?


I don't know how it's specifically done in that plane, but mouse wheel in control mode automatically adjusts trim per default and in view mode zooms the view - so the default behavior seems pretty sane to me. It seems a good idea to keep that.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Thorsten wrote in Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:40 am:mouse wheel in control mode automatically adjusts trim per default and in view mode zooms the view - so the default behavior seems pretty sane to me. It seems a good idea to keep that.

i don't know that i was in mouse control mode when i saw the trim stuff being adjusted... i might have been because sometimes i let go of the ALT key too soon when ALT-TABbing back to the sim and the sim reads it as if i had TABbed in it... i do remember looking at the help and noting that the wheel adjusted one of the trims but nothing was said about being in mouse control mode...

if this (mouse control mode) is where i was, then i raised a red flag when it wasn't necessary and i apologize for that... i'll try to go look at this again and see if i can repeat it...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby Trennor_ » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:30 pm

I am very annoyed with this aeroplane. Downloaded revision 3058 yesterday via svn. Have changed nothing in it. Since then, I've had several failures, which are extremely annoying, especially after having set up a flight with numerous VOR, NDB settings, the RM, planned it all out, and have gone through the checklist procedure only to have the plane totally FAIL either on start up, or just after.
On one occasion, the brake would not disengage. Tried shift-B/b, tried manually disengaging the brake using the mouse, it would NOT come off. We're not going anywhere; reset the sim. Do it all over again. Get to start engine procedure, making sure nothing has been left out, fuel pumps are on, everything done according to checklist, except some lights not turned on and didn't bother with the No Smoking or Seatbelt sign because we're not carrying passengers. The engines wouldn't turn over: no starter sound, no prop movement, nothing. This is the same time there was no sound on spawning; I had to manually turn on the sound in the sim. Why? Another occasion, I got into the air, no problem, engine started, brake didn't seize, only to have the ASI go berserk, wildly fluctuating between about 30 knots and 100 knots at the bottom of the ASI, and the altimeter stuck at 4800 feet, even though my HUD said 5800 and climbing. That eventually righted itself after fifteen minutes in the air (I've noticed this on previous versions too), BUT! The moment the AP was engaged, ASI went berserk again and altimeter plummeted to 4800 feet and stayed there. AP disengaged and neither of them worked the rest of the flight. Thus I had to rely on the HUD for GS and altitude because my in-cockpit instruments were wonky. Most recent flight, just prior to this post, start-up, taxi and take off went fine, but when I got airborne, the ASI stuck at 240 kias and as a result the AP would not engage. It's annoyances like this which make one want to totally give up on this development.
I want to know why this airplane is so temperamental? Why cannot I climb into this thing, the most reliable aircraft Canada has ever produced, and not have these problems with it? I want to fly this airplane, but I don't want to have to put up with the BS I've had in the past several attempts to get this thing even started. I've been flying the DHC6 since Syd Adams first introduced into Flightgear, and never have I had the problems with it I'm having with it now.
System: Fedora Linux ver 4.13.5-100.fc25.x86_64, FlightGear version: 2016.3.1, SimGear version: 2016.3.1, Using Rembrandt with a 1200Ti Nvidia Graphics card. Is there something I'm doing or NOT doing which is causing this? I had ONE successful flight late last night, ironically using Autostart of all things. This does not speak well to this aircraft nor do I think to those who've spent so much time upgrading it. I feel like I'm flying a Beta version. Am I? Where's the stable version, that doesn't crap out on three out of four times I try flying it?
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