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DHC-6 Twin Otter development

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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby CaptB » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:28 pm

Anyone still got the original photo reference for the flight deck? I'm especially interested in the texturing since my photo reference looks a bit different ( color schemes etc ) Thanks!
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby Patten » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:19 pm

CaptB wrote in Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:28 pm:Anyone still got the original photo reference for the flight deck? I'm especially interested in the texturing since my photo reference looks a bit different ( color schemes etc ) Thanks!


Hi,

There are so many different flight deck (on Airliners.net for example), you can imagine all sorts of things.

The mix is In my head, not in my hard disc.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby dg-505 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:00 pm

Here is a small update: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2wA-loaS2xncnVzWlI2MlpkeGs/view?usp=sharing

Changes:
  • A bug fix in the checklists/tutorials
  • Some improvements to the exhaust smoke and water splahes when starting with floats on water
  • Changed /engines/engine[x]/internal-condition to /engines/engine[x]/condition. Reason: With /engines/engine[x]/internal-condition, you stop the joystick/yoke from controlling the condition (thanks to polly for the report)
  • A work-in-progress version of new skis (for the work of a noob not so bad, I think)
  • A small fix of the M877 in the dhc6S
  • Made a small change in the Systems/instrumentation.xml to make the transponder work with OpenRadar and ATC-pie for ATC controllers (thanks to polly)

Also I get an error in the console when starting FG with the dhc6S:
Code: Select all
Nasal runtime error: nil used in numeric context
  at F:/FlightGear Aircraft/dhc6/Nasal/systems.nas, line 356
  called from: F:/FlightGear Aircraft/dhc6/Nasal/systems.nas, line 391
Does anyone know how to fix this?

CaptB wrote in Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:28 pm:Anyone still got the original photo reference for the flight deck?

Didn't you find anything at Google pictures? :wink:

And if you want to texture something of the exterior model: I'm in the process to remodel the skis. In this update, the nose ski is already included, but untextured. Also I think they're not the best high quality, but a bit more accurate than the previous version.
Here some pictures of the skis, if you want to give them a photorealistic texture:
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/assets/AIRFORCE_Internet/images/news-nouvelles/2014/05/RE2014-0013-095.jpg
http://www.simflight.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Aerosoft-Twin-Otter-Extended-Ski.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nxQlv0dgz2o/Uk2KA7oykaI/AAAAAAAAhEU/Z4ZqbQyT5dc/s1600/SKIWHEEL_FINAL_006.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Q4cQPoaGUCA/Uk2KA0yRWhI/AAAAAAAAhEo/z0OmARXK0xU/s1600/SKIWHEEL_FINAL_005.jpg
https://antantarctic.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/plane-11.jpg
Last edited by dg-505 on Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby henrikp » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:57 pm

dg-505 wrote in Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:00 pm:...
Also I get an error in the console when starting FG with the dhc6S:
Code: Select all
Nasal runtime error: nil used in numeric context
  at F:/FlightGear Aircraft/dhc6/Nasal/systems.nas, line 356
  called from: F:/FlightGear Aircraft/dhc6/Nasal/systems.nas, line 391
Does anyone know how to fix this?
...

Currently at work, but just looking at the code and the error it seems to me like engines/engine[0]/reverse property doesn't exist for some reason.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby dg-505 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:15 pm

Yeah, but this error only appears with the ski-version. Neither with the wheels, nor with the floats. And the thrust reverse works with both of them.
But not with the ski version. And just noticed: The throttle levers don't move in the ski version
A mile of road will take you a mile, but a mile of runway will take you everywhere.

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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby CaptB » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:19 pm

dg-505 wrote in Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:00 pm:
CaptB wrote in Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:28 pm:Anyone still got the original photo reference for the flight deck?

Didn't you find anything at Google pictures? :wink:

And if you want to texture something of the exterior model: I'm in the process to remodel the skis. In this update, the nose ski is already included, but untextured.
Here some pictures of the skis, if you want to give them a photorealistic texture:


Well yes, of course there are plenty of pictures and each Otter flight deck is a little different from the other and what we have in our model, so I was wondering if the current model/textures had any particular reference so that I can continue to work in that direction.

Will look into the ski issue.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby henrikp » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:29 pm

Code: Select all
--- dhc6_orig/dhc6S.xml 2015-02-02 19:38:52.188667794 +0200
+++ dhc6/dhc6S.xml      2015-02-02 19:56:23.702664980 +0200
@@ -191,13 +191,15 @@
     </propeller>
 
     <thruster x="2.2" y="2.65" z="1.0" vx="-1" vy="0" vz="0" thrust="500">
-        <control-input axis="engines/engine[0]/reverse-thrust"
-        control="THROTTLE"/>
+        <control-input axis="/controls/engines/engine[0]/throttle-rvrs" control="THROTTLE"/>
+        <control-output control="THROTTLE" prop="engines/engine[0]/reverse"/>
+        <control-speed control="THROTTLE" transition-time="2"/>
     </thruster>
 
     <thruster x="2.2" y="-2.65" z="1.0" vx="-1" vy="0" vz="0" thrust="500">
-        <control-input axis="engines/engine[1]/reverse-thrust"
-        control="THROTTLE"/>
+        <control-input axis="/controls/engines/engine[1]/throttle-rvrs" control="THROTTLE"/>
+        <control-output control="THROTTLE" prop="engines/engine[1]/reverse"/>
+        <control-speed control="THROTTLE" transition-time="2"/>
     </thruster>


The direct reason for that 'nil' error was that the engines/engine[x]/reverse was empty, not 0, because of a missing output channel.
While playing with the throttle (on the ski version) I discovered something - without starting anything put the engines into reverse and push the reverser to full.
The nose will pitch and the plane will rest on its tail. Reducing the reverser thrust power in the configuration from 500 to 200 it makes it rise only slightly.
I can understand that happening while the engines are running, but without power? Is there something else happening when (prop) engines are switched into that mode?
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby lanbo64 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:28 pm

henrikp wrote in Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:29 pm:The nose will pitch and the plane will rest on its tail. Reducing the reverser thrust power in the configuration from 500 to 200 it makes it rise only slightly.
I can understand that happening while the engines are running, but without power? Is there something else happening when (prop) engines are switched into that mode?


Hi henrikp,

Thank you for your report. I will let the reverse thrust working again, but I am sorry that I cannot rebuild this nose rising glitch. It is highly possible about that the whole nasal system is broken. I will post here after fixing.

Edited:

Actually, the nose issue can be rebuilt now, and found that it is a bug in all three versions. I will fix it.

However, there is not reason to reduce the reverse power, because in real world, in some mods of DHC6, the max beta range (reverse power) can be adjusted by the pilots by spinning the two black nuts on the right side of the clock. Currently, this function has not been implemented, and the two nuts are not clickable. I mean, in the future, we can add a function for them, so we can adjust the max reverse power to 200 or 300 or 500 or whatever... This is not related to the bug.

Bo
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby lanbo64 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:28 pm

Hi everyone,

This my current update: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1TXYE8yc_ktV2pWaEd1a2FZRWc/view?usp=sharing.

No new feature added. If you just fly wheels version, you will not feel many changes.

The reverse power bug of ski version has been fixed. Now you can use the reverse power to brake it.

The bug of reverse power still working when engines are not running has been fixed.

Some engine, torque, and speed settings in Yasim for Float and Ski. Now they have similar feelings to the Wheels as long as some minor differences.

Here the change log by each file:

1. dhc6S.xml
Fixed the bugs of reverse power.

2. dhc6F.xml
Detailed engine settings for torque and speed.

3. Nasal/systems.nas
I use this nasal code to set reverse power data to yet another property when engines are not running, and then, I use this property to feed the animation of the throttle handle bars.
Code: Select all
    var running1 = getprop("engines/engine[0]/running");
    var running2 = getprop("engines/engine[1]/running");
    if(LHrvr==1 and running1==0) {
        setprop("controls/engines/engine[0]/throttle-rvrs-norunning",THR1);
    } else if (LHrvr==1 and running1==1) {
        setprop("controls/engines/engine[0]/throttle-rvrs",THR1);
    } else {
        setprop("controls/engines/engine[0]/throttle-fwd",THR1);
    }

    if(RHrvr==1 and running2==0) {
        setprop("controls/engines/engine[1]/throttle-rvrs-norunning",THR2);
    } else if (LHrvr==1 and running2==1) {
        setprop("controls/engines/engine[1]/throttle-rvrs",THR2);
    } else {
        setprop("controls/engines/engine[1]/throttle-fwd",THR2);
    }
   


4. Models/Flightdeck/flightdeck.xml
I add an new animation tree to accept the feeding data from the nasal code above.
Code: Select all
    <animation>
        <type>rotate</type>
        <object-name>LHthrottle</object-name>
        <property>controls/engines/engine[0]/throttle-rvrs-norunning</property>
        <factor>-5</factor>
        <center>
            <x-m>-3.6</x-m>
            <y-m>0</y-m>
            <z-m>2.140</z-m>
        </center>
        <axis>
            <x>0</x>
            <y>1</y>
            <z>0</z>
        </axis>


Here is also my new video to introduce some old school navigation skill for you. This skill is still important in even today, and it is even still included in ATPL examination today. And this nav skill can be only implemented in this aircraft model and the TU154 model currently.


Here is my own calculator I used in this video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1TXYE8yc_ktU0s2a2VwUk93b00/view?usp=sharing
It is only a one-file html-javascript, so just download it and use your modern web browser to open it. If you like to deploy it to a web server, it is okay, dual licensed GPLv2/v3.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby SP-K79 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:36 pm

Magnificent aircraft. Great job.

These problems might not exist on the Windows version of FlightGear however make aircraft operation impossible on OS X.

- The starter switch does not respond to MMB.
Either make two hot spots to operate it or make it sensitive to scroll. Even if you want to use autostart only one engine can be started.

- The fuel selector does get stuck when you try to operate it.
Same story two hot spots or scroll sensitive.

- Mixtures do not respond to m and M keystrokes which corresponds to other external controls not working.

These are in no ways minuses when it comes to the overall job done on the aircraft, only kind requests in order for some of us to enjoy this project on OS X.

Many thanks in advance,

Peter.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby dg-505 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:31 pm

Thanks for the report, Peter :)
SP-K79 wrote in Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:36 pm:Mixtures do not respond to m and M keystrokes which corresponds to other external controls not working.

Tthe mixture (for turboprops, it is called "condition") is controlled with the "j/J"-key for the left condition, and with the "k/K"-key for the right condition (also displayed in the help menu :wink:)

SP-K79 wrote in Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:36 pm:- The starter switch does not respond to MMB.
Either make two hot spots to operate it or make it sensitive to scroll. Even if you want to use autostart only one engine can be started.

- The fuel selector does get stuck when you try to operate it.
Same story two hot spots or scroll sensitive.


I'll have a look over it, and see what I can do.

Ah, I just noticed, that lanbo64 didn't integrated his updates into the previous version of Febuary 2, 2015. In that version, the bug that external controls can't operate the conditon, was fixed.
However, tomorrow I'll merge my version from Feb. 2 and lanbo64's version from Feb. 3 together so that all updates are present in one single version.
A mile of road will take you a mile, but a mile of runway will take you everywhere.

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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby islandmonkey » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:56 pm

However, tomorrow I'll merge my version from Feb. 2 and lanbo64's version from Feb. 3 together so that all updates are present in one single version.


I know you're on Windows, which makes life a little harder with git, but perhaps it is time to start using some revision control so things like this are done a little smoother :wink:
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby dg-505 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:18 pm

You're definitely right, islandmonkey.
I've also thought about it, but U am absolutely not familiar with such systems...
A mile of road will take you a mile, but a mile of runway will take you everywhere.

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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby lanbo64 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:37 pm

dg-505 wrote in Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:31 pm:
Ah, I just noticed, that lanbo64 didn't integrated his updates into the previous version of Febuary 2, 2015. In that version, the bug that external controls can't operate the conditon, was fixed.
However, tomorrow I'll merge my version from Feb. 2 and lanbo64's version from Feb. 3 together so that all updates are present in one single version.


Thank you for your notice. I just missed the post of Feb. 2. I would always try to merge, but a lot of contents on the forum just overwhelmed me this time. I am sorry about that.

I have looked at the Feb. 2 update. It looks like that you wanted to completely replace the internal-condition and condition. However, you forget to reverse the engine sound... Now we can hear the engine sound even they are not running.

Actually my Feb. 3 version will also have a similar defect:
I use a new property to control the reverse animation when the engines are not running. It is:
Code: Select all
setprop("controls/engines/engine[0]/throttle-rvrs-norunning",THR1);


It means that the "throttle-rvrs-norunning" animation will not be fed by any external controllers which have reverse power handle bars, but I already have an idea about how to improve this part.

Currently, I stop updating and wait the merged version, also all my change codes will be posted along with my update in the future, like my latest one.

Bo
Last edited by lanbo64 on Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby lanbo64 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:43 pm

islandmonkey wrote in Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:56 pm:
However, tomorrow I'll merge my version from Feb. 2 and lanbo64's version from Feb. 3 together so that all updates are present in one single version.


I know you're on Windows, which makes life a little harder with git, but perhaps it is time to start using some revision control so things like this are done a little smoother :wink:


I use Linux and have no problem by using revision control. However, currently all aircraft models of the FlightGear have been moved to an SVN called FGaddon. I don't know if we have authority to push update to that SVN. Of course, we can also deploy another revision controller for our rough and "dirty hack". : )
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