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Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Isaak » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Hi I-NEMO,

Very glad to hear from you! I currently maintain the 777 because I saw that multiple forks were being developed and I had the fear that we might have ended with multiple incompatible forks, so I guess that's exactly matching with your goal for the 777. I was in touch with Hyde until September(ish) 2017, but then I wasn't able to get in contact anymore, although I did multiple efforts to do so over the course of last winter and spring (northern hemisphere that is ;)). I 'm definitely willing to cooperate with you and hope that you like the improvements several people (including Legoboyvdlp, it0uchpods and others) brought to the 777 over the last year. I do not have to be the main maintainer in my opinion, my coding skills are limited and I only took it on me because no-one else did it.

Because of real life commitments, going through a breakup with my girlfriend and the unavoidable move out from her out of our house, I won't be able to do any development until the end of March, but I plan to continue then. Currently I am contributing directly to FGaddon via SVN, but I 'm totally open to contribute in another repo, pushing stable releases to FGaddon once in a while. For me it is very important that we keep FGaddon as the place where people download the latest stable 777, so we are sure every development keeps compatible and centralised around the main FG repo.

Regarding the licensing you talk about: I'm afraid that the GPL v2.0 doesn't protect you totally from that: everyone is free to use, transform and distribute your work as long as they comply to the license. I definitly hope that this isn't a deal-breaker for you.

Thanks for coming back!

Kind regards,

Isaak
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Octal450 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:11 pm

Hi I-NEMO:
Unfortunately Isaak is correct. GPL V2 means that they are allowed to do that :( Sorry for the badness. Hope we can find a solution.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby I-NEMO » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:40 am

"
GPL v2.0 doesn't protect you totally from that: everyone is free to use, transform and distribute your work as long as they comply to the license.
"

The point is that proper original credit should be at least given by the user who access a 3d model under such a license. And - in my case - nobody has ever done it!
Which - in my opinion - is a very bad habit.

Image

Regarding my work-in-progress about a new B777 Seattle external 3d model: I'm afraid that I don't feel protected; my personal position is that no 3d model should be ever modified without my consent (It's not a matter of money at all; it's just a due respect for the professional work produced by the original 3d modeller). So, .... once the new 777 Seattle 3d model will be finished, I will of course offer it to any eventual pilot for free, but with a strict personal licence only: I'm aware that many will not like such a decision, but I'm really tired of seeing tids&bits of my 3d models taken and 'wildly pasted' in other aircraft models, on FG and/or on other Flight Sim platforms.
Sharing should never mean 'stealing' an Intellectual Property (whose developmnet costed months or years to the original 3d Modeller): this is, in my humble opinion. a sick deviation from the spirit of sharing.
Anyway ... we'll see ...

Greetings,

I-NEMO
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby legoboyvdlp » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:55 am

I'm sorry to hear that - but unfortunately it is allowed by the license.

If the 777 was made GPL v3 I'm not quite sure but I think you could release your model as CC-BY-SA 4.0 which would force people to attribute you.

But I'm not entirely sure if making it GPLv3 would be possible given its presently GPLv2?
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby V12 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:39 pm

It is similar with ProFlightSim :(
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:48 pm

ProFlightSim is rebadged FlightGear... that's been known about for years... but hey, since they rebadge it, it is up to them to provide full support for it in their own support area(s)...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby WoodSTokk » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:47 pm

The same as VirtualPilot3D --> virtualpilot3d.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9-3CLpHdT0
Last edited by Gijs on Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Let's not link to them
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby IceBreaker » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:06 am

WoodSTokk wrote in Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:47 pm:The same as VirtualPilot3D --> virtualpilot3d.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9-3CLpHdT0


It looks like a fork of FlightGear with very nice graphic content (I saw the trailer). My question: the traffic of cars with 3D models, detailed planes and maps, are developed by the team of this fork of FlighGear, or are mods added in a FlighGear release? I'm against what I've just seen, and I knew ProFlightSim (doing research long ago), I've already heard this but viewing the official website smells of brutal scam.

The Boeing 777 has improved a lot since the last time I used it. A really good job 8)
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby WoodSTokk » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:25 am

They have also used screenshots and videos from FSX and X-Plane. Read this article:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/03/09/dont-buy-proflightsimulator/
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby IceBreaker » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:10 am

WoodSTokk wrote in Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:25 am:They have also used screenshots and videos from FSX and X-Plane. Read this article:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/03/09/dont-buy-proflightsimulator/


I read everything, and did some research on these projects. The GPL / GNU license of FlightGear allows the distribution and marketing of the modified project but imposes the release of the source code of the original parts of the project (FlightGear precisely).

VirtualPilot3D and ProFlightSimulator, do not have a source code repository. Is this all right? can these people (scammers) do this, by publishing images of FSX and Boeing renderings that are copyrighted by smashing this material for their "fake" product?

All of this is embarrassing, some people have no dignity.
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:41 am

I believe in their terms and conditions they say its available if you ask which covers them but I don't think they respond to any contact, so in practice it isn't available.
Regardless, this is drifting a bit off topic.
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby yanfiz » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:22 pm

Intellectual Property is about patents, copyrights and trademarks which provide financial benefit to their owners in commerce. Is this aircraft is a commercial property or an open source project? Or, is someone telling a tale?
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby abassign » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:55 pm

I-NEMO wrote in Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:40 am:Sharing should never mean 'stealing' an Intellectual Property (whose developmnet costed months or years to the original 3d Modeller): this is, in my humble opinion. a sick deviation from the spirit of sharing.


Dear,

just your model, together with MIG 15, have served to as as a conceptual basis to realize our G91R1B that we immediately licensed under GPL3+ This has generated a long debate last year that has not led to any results. I then do not think that in an open-sore project it is so serious that someone changes the original project, because one day we want to do other things and maybe have someone who "takes care" of the project and keeps it alive, I like it . If nobody changes it and will improve in the future, it means that in the end our work has not met the success we hoped for.
So I willingly accept that someone modify our project, but at the same time we maintain our repository that can be enriched (as long as we want) of the additions that we consider best, both on the code and on the graphic objects. I have included in the G91, in addition to the .ac files also the 3D files of Free-cad to give the opportunity to anyone to use and / or modify them, as I believe that none of us is better than many other good programmers and graphics that they attend FGFS.
From the commercial point of view someone will be tempted to take our G (I think only the 3D, as the FGFS programs are not used by other simulators), will open it with Blender, apply some optimization and a script to change the names and then he will put his things on it by generating a new G91R1B ... and maybe he will sell it saying it's his ... but he will not be able to tell us that he is not ours because the GIT is a witness to it! At this point will have earned a few weeks of work and then? Simply we will have two G91R1B: a free and open-source GIT-HUB to a similar clone for sale in which a few weeks of work has been spared, but in the end remains to do the rest.
In my opinion this is an acceptable problem, otherwise we risk the death of our work in a relatively short time as technology changes and I do not think we want to pursue a personal project for decades!
Moreover, I remember that to assert a copyright is necessary to spend in lawyers and start a lawsuit, I do not know if any of us wants to do this. Even companies do not and if a violation of rights with possible economic damage happens, companies try to come to a direct agreement.

:) Greetings
Adriano
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Isaak » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:16 am

For everyone's information, I 'm doing some work on ground services for the 777, mostly based on the 787 and other aircraft that have them. As of today, FGaddon's 777 (both trunk and 2019.1) has a refueling dialog (777 > refuel-truck) which allows you to refuel your airplane realistically. The truck model is based on the 787's, but modified to fit the 777. The refueling rate is based on reality (where a typical widebody is refueled at a rate of about 1000 US gallons per minute). This means that the refueling process for a long range flight can take quite some time. E.g. for my test flight from EHAM to WSSS this night the refueling from about 18000 Lbs to 271700 Lbs took about 40 minutes. Because this might be a bit too long for the impatient captain, I 've added a "Fast" button that instantly finishes the process. :) Of course you can still use your old good Fuel & payload menu if you don't like the fuel truck, nothing 's changed on that side. Enjoy!
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby yanfiz » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:37 am

Thank you for your valuable efforts.

Will http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/f ... ft/777.zip be updated? It stuck at 2018-Oct-22.

Kind regards.
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