Board index FlightGear Development Aircraft

Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Questions and discussion about creating aircraft. Flight dynamics, 3d models, cockpits, systems, animation, textures.

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Hyde » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:31 pm

KL-666 wrote in Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:21 pm:At 10000 ft set alt to 4000 ft and enable flch so desc starts. Way before 6000 ft decide to stop descending at 6000 instead of 4000, so roll up alt to 6000. The descent goes past 6000 and sometimes stops at the original setting 4000, but sometimes even continues to desc further through 4000.

Same happens actually in climb. Set 10000 ft, enable flch, but decide during climb to stop climbing at 8000 ft.

The same effect should be achievable with vertical speed instead of flch.

I would expect the climb or desc to stop at the height indicated by the a/p alt setting.
Altitude counter value does not affect any command directly.
You have to press "FLCH" or "V/S" after set new altitude 6000 to set the new command.
Or simply press "HOLD" button engages altitude (ALT) as the pitch mode which maintain the altitude when the switch was pushed.

3) I have a thrustmaster T160000M. here is the button definition for toggle speed brake. It works btw for any other aircraft.
This is my fault.
I changed the reverse function initiated only thrust lever retard to idle that causes suffers commonality with other ship.
I will fix. Thanks for notify.

Oh and another question. Why does the vertical speed numbers disappear when at alt? I would find it convenient to see the setting where i left it at.
Boeing manual says "Blank when the vertical speed (V/S) or flight path angle (FPA) pitch mode is not engaged."
And "When the selected altitude is reached, the pitch mode changes to altitude (ALT)."

Thanks for your support to 777. :D
Hyde
Hyde
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Peachtree city, GA
Callsign: N407DS
Version: GIT
OS: Fedora 25

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby I-NEMO » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:45 pm

Hallo FG Pilots,

due to current state of transition from FG 3.0 RC and final FG 3.0 - where, for instance, the 777 included in the very first FG 3.0 RC was a sort of mixup of the old model and our new one, giving wrong Cockpit texturing (thanks to Mike-G for making us aware of the issue) - we have thought convenient to build two temporary 'Builds' of current Pre-Release of the Boeing 777 Seattle.

One, named OLDND, has the latest fix and updates by our Team (up to today, Jan 28th!), but NOT using the new Canvas System NDs (Navigation Displays).
The other, named NEWND, has the latest fix and updates by our Team (up to today, Jan 28th!), and uses the new Canvas System NDs (Navigation Displays). Please be advised: as the Canvas System Developing Team is still working on some already reported issues, the NDs do work, but still with some possible performance issues and with some info on screen still missing. They do look great, though; and we decided to keep them as they currently are, just because of testing and fixing.

So, this is how to get the new Boeing 777 Seattle:

1) - Git Build - For those who are familiar with Git: just make a 'Git Pull'. Please note: this Build will be UPDATED by our Team, so it will contain - in dependence with current work-flow - future fixings and mods.
Download - from Git (usually with Git Bash).
2) - OLDND Build - For those who want to test the current state of the aircraft, with old NDs (no Canvas Sytem!). Please note: this Build will NOT be updated by us; it just contains fixes up to Jan 28th.
Download - from MediaFire (85 Mb), here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/8k6y6d2ye1cemv8/777_oldND_012714.tar.gz
3) - NEWND Build - For those who want to test the current state of the aircraft, with NEW NDs (with Canvas Sytem!). Please note: this Build will NOT be updated by us; it just contains fixes up to Jan 28th.
Download - from MediaFire (94 Mb), here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/4tkiv2sfjq4hmf5/777_newND_012714.tar.gz
WARNING: this NEWND Build has been modified on Jan 30th: please download it (with enhancements made by Philosopher) from the new MediaFireLink (see my Post http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21870&p=199267#p199267).

Additional Note: prior to actual installing any Build, it is more than advisable to REMOVE completely the 777 folder in 'Aircraft' directory; and then copy and paste the downloaded 777 Folder into 'Aircraft' directory. It would be a bad idea to 'mix-up' a pre-existant installation of any 'make' of the 777, as well as to keep two or three Builds of the 777...results would be unpredictable, and we strongly advise to have just one build of the 777 in the Aircraft directory.
Also, as said at the beginning, bear in mind that ALL current available Builds contain the Pre-Release version of the 777 Seattle: we offer it for testing purposes, hoping to get info from users so to better tune-up and/or fix things for the making of the 777 Seattle's First Release. As we all are human, please be patient and report any relevant issue and/or problem you might experience.

One last advice: if choosing to download from Mediafire (Builds 2 or 3), it would be safer to use a Download Manager, to avoid possible bad downloads.

So, ...happy flying and testing with the Boeing 777 Seattle !

for the 777 Seattle Team, I-NEMO
Last edited by I-NEMO on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
I-NEMO
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:09 am
Location: Italy
Callsign: I-NEMO
Version: 2017.2.1
OS: Windows 7 64 bit

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby KL-666 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:51 pm

Hello Hyde,

I can work with your explanations. But not all are correct (just verified with 777 pilot). The disappearing numbers on V/S is correct (although i do not like it :-) ). But the alt issue is not. Only when there are levels set in flight director and lnav/vnav are on, there can be a difference between alt where the plane goes and alt set in A/P. If lnav/vnav are off (like in my case) the fl in A/P should be respected without rehitting flch or V/S.

And there is another long standing issue with the vario meter. Did you notice that it sometimes sticks to 0 while actually still climbing or descending (height indicator still rolls). If not just keep an eye more on vario while desc or climb. You will see.

Kind regards, Vincent
KL-666
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Philosopher » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:30 am

Hey, thanks for making the Seattle available! I'm sure that will ease use, particularly if the release isn't fully complete.

For the Canvas ND version (that I've been working on), I trust that you included the canvas directory from the master branch? I haven't pushed my changes to the release branch yet (I will soon), so if that was taken from the wrong branch it wouldn't have my recent work.
Thanks,
Philosopher
(inactive but lurking occasionally...)
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:29 pm
Location: Stuck in my head...
Callsign: AFTI
Version: Git
OS: Mac OS X 10.7.5

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Hyde » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:50 am

Philosopher wrote in Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:30 am:Hey, thanks for making the Seattle available! I'm sure that will ease use, particularly if the release isn't fully complete.

For the Canvas ND version (that I've been working on), I trust that you included the canvas directory from the master branch? I haven't pushed my changes to the release branch yet (I will soon), so if that was taken from the wrong branch it wouldn't have my recent work.

Sorry Philosopher,
It's only 777 directory. Does not contain others.
You should use RC or git master branch. Is it useful if it contains Nasal/canvas directory too?

Hyde
Hyde
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Peachtree city, GA
Callsign: N407DS
Version: GIT
OS: Fedora 25

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Philosopher » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:20 am

Actually, I guess I'll just push the updates right now, so they'll appear in the RCs soon. But otherwise yes that would have been, because that's where all of my updates were.

Edit: Ok, that's done.
Thanks,
Philosopher
(inactive but lurking occasionally...)
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:29 pm
Location: Stuck in my head...
Callsign: AFTI
Version: Git
OS: Mac OS X 10.7.5

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Jonathan C » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:26 am

Hi Hyde and I-NEMO, thanks for making the files available for all. It's been a real pain to test the modifications you've been making to the triple 7 ever since the snapshot function was removed from the git server and the mirror server is now down.

I have a little bug that's been, well bugging me for awhile, not related to the new cockpit. Back on July 7th, 2013, you made a change to the 777-300.ac file to “adjust cabinlight position” and must have inadvertently appended the new changes. The result was a new meaning to the term “triple 7 heavy” as there is now 2 to 3 copies of most parts. I know you guys plan to redo the models in the future, but if you decide to fix this before the version 3 release, I have a couple more things you may want to check at the same time, first is the Laileron parts are combined while the Raileron is grouped. Not that it makes any difference, but I think having the parts grouped allows for easier modifications. Next is the left and right engine chrome, this applies to all versions of the triple 7, there is a separation between the cowling/chrome that allows the fan blades to be seen. I just copied my modified LHEngChrome and RHEngChome to your latest 777-300.ac file to test and they line up, so I'll just e-mail them to you Hyde and you can copy and paste them.

Thanks for your determination to improve the triple 7
JC
Jonathan C
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:17 am

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Hyde » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:58 pm

KL-666 wrote in Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:51 pm:Hello Hyde,

I can work with your explanations. But not all are correct (just verified with 777 pilot). The disappearing numbers on V/S is correct (although i do not like it :-) ). But the alt issue is not. Only when there are levels set in flight director and lnav/vnav are on, there can be a difference between alt where the plane goes and alt set in A/P. If lnav/vnav are off (like in my case) the fl in A/P should be respected without rehitting flch or V/S.

And there is another long standing issue with the vario meter. Did you notice that it sometimes sticks to 0 while actually still climbing or descending (height indicator still rolls). If not just keep an eye more on vario while desc or climb. You will see.

Kind regards, Vincent

Thank you, KL-666,

Yes,.I've confiemed I'm wrong. I will fix.

And that indication sitck, I've noticed long. It happens on not only vertical speed but also speed indication too.
I thoght this was a long standing issue and difficult to fix.
I'm looking for this issue in the open issue list but not find. I will submit the issue report to fix.

Hyde
Hyde
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Peachtree city, GA
Callsign: N407DS
Version: GIT
OS: Fedora 25

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Hyde » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:55 pm

Jonathan C ,

Thanks your modified file.
I've pushed your change.

KL-666,

I've fixed all of your claims and pushed to git.
Please check if you can pull from git.

Thanks,
Hyde
Hyde
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Peachtree city, GA
Callsign: N407DS
Version: GIT
OS: Fedora 25

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby I-NEMO » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:41 am

Hallo FG Pilots,

thanks to Philosopher for his enhancements to the NDs with Canvas System!...good job! :D

We have thought to include these mods (available on Git, as usual), also on the Mediafire Build: here's then the NEW Link for the NEWND Build:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/dd70r9f8773xkik/777_newND_012714.tar.gz

The OLDND Build (without Canvas System NDs) remains unchanged and valid (see my previous post)

We remind all users and testers that the Boeing 777 Seattle has been developed to be used with FG 3.0 only: the new NDs will NOT work (nor be visible) with previous FG's versions...!

Thank you very much for appreciations and reports from

The 777 Seattle Team, I-NEMO
I-NEMO
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:09 am
Location: Italy
Callsign: I-NEMO
Version: 2017.2.1
OS: Windows 7 64 bit

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby KL-666 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:45 pm

Hello Hyde,

I would like to try, but the last time i wanted one plane, i had to get the whole data repo first. That did not work, it crashed twice or trice halfway the clone. So i fear if i try again it will be the same. Is there some way to get hold of a single plane?

Kind regards, Vincent
KL-666
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby KL-666 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:48 pm

Hi Hyde,

Thanks for the help to get at the plane. I tested:

- Alt hold gets caught with any trick i throw at it to confuse it. So that is good.
- Vario meter seems very steady now. Also great.
- Joystick button for reverser works.

There is another thing curious. When i engage flch it dives and then pickes up the climb normally. That might be caused because the plane wants to pick up speed to A/T speed. But it even sometimes happens when i am at A/T speed. I do not think the plane should sink below climb 0 if it is below A/T speed. Maybe do less climb to pick up speed, but not dive.

About frame rates: they still seem normal to me. But i got into memory problems with 12 GB. So maybe what seems like a frame rate problem is actually a memory problem.

Kind regards, Vincent
KL-666
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Hyde » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:03 am

KL-666,

I'm glad you satisfy fixes.

There is another thing curious. When i engage flch it dives and then pickes up the climb normally. That might be caused because the plane wants to pick up speed to A/T speed. But it even sometimes happens when i am at A/T speed. I do not think the plane should sink below climb 0 if it is below A/T speed. Maybe do less climb to pick up speed, but not dive.
Yes, this is annoying issue since first flch implementation. I was not expert at that time but now still not but better.
I'm gonna try to fix again.

Hyde
Hyde
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Peachtree city, GA
Callsign: N407DS
Version: GIT
OS: Fedora 25

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Hooray » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:31 pm

What is now the latest situation regarding the performance of the Canvas/ND ? Philosopher has done a ton of work related to this recently, and the situation should be pretty good now - which is why I am asking. However, if you find ANYTHING to cause severe stutter/lag, please be extremely specific about, so that we can try to reproduce the issue - ideally, by specifying your average performance (fps & ms), as well as the impact the ND is having - and under which circumstances, i.e. ND settings (range, selected modes) - or outside situation (i.e. a ton of AI/MP traffic or weather etc). Unfortunately, we really need this info so that we can try to understand what's going on. Overall, Philosopher's MapStructure is now used in most places already - and there's only very few instances left that are using the old/unoptimized code.
Finally, even prior to Philosopher's changes, I stress-tested everything using just the ufo, and a couple of independent ND instances tracking AI traffic - and I didn't see any major impact even when having ~8 different NDs open. Given the nature of Nasal scripting, it is also possible, that other Nasal code is affecting the ND (and vice versa) - thus, it would be good if you could exclude other potential sources by disabling the loops of the corresponding systems (listeners/switches).

Overall, we really need more people adopting the framework and provide feedback, so that we know what needs to be improved - which is why I am grateful for Hyde's testing, but I'd like to second Philosopher's point, that the 777 guys are obviously in a better position to add missing features than the 747 developer, or the ND/MapStructure folks are.

The framework itself is prepared to support different aircraft makes and models, without having to touch existing code - these are all just separate hashes, each hash being typically resonsible for a single layer - and each layer having custom symbols with animation callbacks - it may look weird at first, but it's really just 10-15 lines of code per symbol or layer, without having to understand the remaining code.

I encourage folks to give it a try, so that we can keep on improving things over time.
For now, I do agree though, that performance is more important than features.

There's one relatively straightforward thing to do, which is basically "ready", but still needs some integration work - it's enabling the new caching scheme, which should significantly reduce the canvas workload - I sent a heads-up to TheTom and Philosopher regarding this, because it's a low-hanging fruit to optimize things, without revamping all the code...
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
Help write next month's newsletter !
pui2canvas | MapStructure | Canvas Development | Programming resources
Hooray
 
Posts: 11313
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 am

Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Hyde » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:58 pm

What is now the latest situation regarding the performance of the Canvas/ND ?

Status is not changed much as you see the issue tracker.
Route flickering is a current big issue, I think.
Hyde
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Peachtree city, GA
Callsign: N407DS
Version: GIT
OS: Fedora 25

PreviousNext

Return to Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests