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Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

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Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby I-NEMO » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:15 pm

Hallo FG Pilots,

Greetings from Italy, USA, and France!

As you see, myself and Hyde have been joined by Jean-Yves a few days ago: Project 777 Seattle has now 3 members, taking care of developing - in due time - a better aircraft's model.

At this moment, we concentrate mainly on the new 3d Cockpit: as previously said (see Post http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21252), we worked hard to get a more realistic Cockpit, not only in terms of visual looking, but of improvements of some basic functions and controls as well.

We are happy to introduce to the FG Community our first Pre-Release of the current model for the Boeing 777 Seattle.

You may download it by 'pulling' from GIT, ready for FG 3.0.

Please be warned: we finished our last tuning a few days ago; so, the model MUST be considered as just a Pre-Release; so that it may be flown and evaluated by any user who like the 777. In particular - as the responsible for all graphical work - be advised that the current Pre-Release is really 'heavy': a major upgrade has been made on 3d modeling (by actually re-modeling old stuff, and by adding many, many, details, with high polys), as well as on Texturing. I wish to inform Pilots that this Pre-Release is still 'wild' in terms of performance's economy: we could not take care, while creating all the new stuff and related software, to precisely work on optimization of 3d objects, polys, nor Textures. And it is not in our plan to fix them in the immediate future.
Reason: we first need to get news and info by those who will like to test the actual Pre-Release, aiming our efforts to eliminate errors and bugs. We will not - at the moment - put hands to actual performance issues related to User's Hardware and OS, or FG' version (we will take anyway good notice of this kind of problems, to be addressed later). Once the major fixes will be finalized, we will of course put hands back on actual 3d models and Textures, optimizing at our best everything which might ensure better performance.

So, be prepared to heavy frame-rate loss with current 777 Pre-Release.

With my Configuration (Intel 3770 8 Cores, 32 Gb Ram ddr3, NVidia GTX 650 TI, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit) I can fly current Pre-Release with the following performance values (NO Rembrandt, realistic Weather ON, heavy weather with clouds, rain and fog):

On FG 2.12.1: with a 59 FRate on external views and 30-40 FRate on internal views; 6 FRate down when looking to Pedestal.
On FG 3.1.0 Nightly (18 Jan): with a 40 FRate on external views and 20-35 FRate on internal views; 6 FRate down when looking to Pedestal.

Both these values get very low once in proximity of heavy traffic location (like EDDF, for instance).

Now, let's go to the new enhancements:

NOTE: we've based our work on Boeing available manuals. From them, we derived ideas, functions and some graphical proportions. For the Graphical part, we developed the whole Cockpit by looking at every details into a huge amount of real 777's photos and Videos. As far as we know, there are not Cockpit's drawings or blueprints available on the Web we could use as reference. So, for the graphical part, I had to actually 3d-model all the various objects by just comparing various shots, and doing my best effort to set dimensions and proportions: I'm not pretending that the Cockpit is absolutely perfect, far from that. Still, it looks quite similar to the real one: many things are to be adjusted, though. Please, be patient.

• NEW Handy Viewer panel (from 777 Menu): I thought that it would be very useful to just click once to change view, instead of cycling through views. So, the Handy Viewer panel let the user switch to Cockpit view (CPT, FO, Radio-CDU, OHpanel, TopLeft, OBS 1, OBS 2) or External View (FrontGear, Left Wing, Right Wing, Tail, (and a few of usual views), easily and quickly. In all views, it has been inserted a 'restore view' command, so that view position will be reset.
OH panel: completely re-modeled and re-textured: new Switches and Knobs, consistent with Boeing real Switches and Knobs, have been modeled, inserted and textured. New Font face, size and colors, consistent with Boeing's requirements. Also, there's now a realistic Circuit Breaker section, fully completed.
MCP: completely re-modeled and re-textured; AP panel has new Switches (with more realistic LEDs) and Knobs. AP has received a major revision by Hyde, fixing many wrong issues and fine-tuning its behavior (Please, DO refer to Boeing 777 Operations Manual to understand how the AP panel actually works: by pressing Switches and Knobs, the user will get different behavior from previous 777 versions).
EFIS panel: new Knobs, and some functions' improvements.
PFDs: has been improved by Hyde, including more consistent info for the Pilot. In the future it will be implemented with Canvas system.
NDs: We are actually testing the use of Canvas system; since Canvas is still in evolution, we may revert back to old system: with Canvas, though, many improvements on readability has been added, with a more realistic looking, and realistic info on screens for the Pilots. The NDs now may be used independently by CPT and FO (Thanks, Hyde and Jean-Yves).
Lower EICAS: now Pilot may select to display usual FCTL screen or ENG screen, by pressing the relevant button on the Display Control panel (FO side). We are planning to add more functions, so to give the pilot all the flight-information envisaged by Boeing (will do that little by little, though). ENG screen has been developed by Jean-Yves: Pilots may now check the screen to get real-time info about oil pressure, temperature and quantities.
'Track' mode added (Track sel, Track hold): when Track mode is selected, ND's center matches LNAV course, even with strong side wind.
Yokes: completely remodeled and re-textured: added two Trim Switches and a button (still inactive) for future use.
Pedestal: totally re-mastered: it is now almost consistent with true 777 pedestal; all various panels have now been 3d-modeled and Textured, with new Buttons, Switches and Knobs. THIS part of the Cockpit IS VERY HEAVY in terms of graphical rendition: due to the number of objects, details, and so forth, it is unavoidable to experience a very low FRate. The aircraft now sports three Radio sets (still to be fixed, though). The pedestal will - little by little - be completely usable by the pilots: but, please, be patient. At the moment you may anyway enjoy its overall looking (which will be enhanced as well).
Pilots' Seats: completely re-modeled and Textured, consistent with Boeing real ones. Added many details (like Pilot seat position's adjustment controls, for instance): seats might became fully animated in the future...
Observers' Seats: completely re-modeled and Textured; added central console and seat position's adjustment for OBS1's seat.
Left and Right Side Consoles: re-modeled and re-textured, with foldable worktables for both pilots (click on them!). EFB console with Tiller Handle. Still to be completed, actually...
Left Cabinet: re-modeled and re-textured: added flashlights, gloves, axe, and a Fire Extinguisher, consistent with Boeing requirements.
Right Cabinet: re-modeled and re-textured: added Maintenance console with realistic Terminal (PilotView model, functions not implemented).
Windows' frame: re-modeled and re-textured, with panels, pylons, and air-vents. Still to be completed.
• ...and many little addition & tweaks: fly the 777 Seattle, and you'll notice the various changes/additions.

And here's some screenshots of current state of the Boeing 777 Seattle's Cockpit:

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

Should you like to see more pictures, here's an Album: https://imageshack.com/a/pNDq/1

Functions:

Autostart now sets the OH panel Switches in realistic conditions (a pilot which may want to have a manual start, might do so by following relevant procedures [see Boeing 777 Operations Manual]). You will notice that there are Switches with just LED illumination on pressure, or with Shutters animation on pressure. We looked at real 777 pictures and Videos to replicate them: but the animation is currently missing an important part; since it seems that there is not (at the moment) any available method to actually animate an object in time (that is: move as required, but in 0.5 sec; then stop for a while, and then execute another part of animation, say in 0.9 secs); so we are still trying to devise a solution to replicate the real movement made by the Switch once 'pushed'.

HDG selection: Pilot may choose to display current course (on the NDs) as 'True' or 'Magnetic', using the relevant Switch on CPT forward Panel: first open the Flip-Guard, then press the switch.

On Gear Control Panel: Pilot may 'override' 'Ground-Proximity', 'Terrain' and 'Gear' warning, using the relevant Switch on the panel: first open the Flip-Guard, then press the switch.

So....this is it: we have been working several months, every day, animated by our common passion for the 777.
We enjoyed very much to work together to achieve a better looking and flying 777.

We do hope FG pilots will like it.

Please, report your comments (critics, appreciations, requests for better tuning, and so forth) on this Forum: be detailed to the maximum (Hardware& Software configuration, FG version, flying conditions, screenshots, accurate description), so that we may reproduce the reported issue. We'll do our best to comply. Bear in mind, though, that things are to be made little by little.

Being, myself and Hyde, two old-styled men...we like to be precise; and young Jean-Yves is very accurate too.

Personally, I have to express my great gratitude to Hyde for his continuous support, patience and - moreover - competence. Thanks Hyde, I'm much honoured...

To Jean-Yves, who has recently joined our two-members developing team, I give my 'welcome-on-board'...on this 777 Seattle passionate adventure!

To the FG Community, from all of us: ...Enjoy!

Regards,

I-NEMO ...and Hyde and Jean-Yves
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby KL-666 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:21 am

I read this changelog, but did not see: Fixed wild stampede on lateral axis while engaging autopilot. Pity, but i will still retry ofcourse. But if that behaviour stays the same, i'll also drop this plane quickly again.

Cu after trying, Vincent
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby jormapaappa1235 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:32 am

Hi,

I must say the cockpit looks fantastic. But, there are some things you could "optimize" a little --> more fps. In some places there are very, very much polygons and Flightgear isn't very capable to run them. Only in pedestal file, there are 10mb of screws, 4-5mb of phone wire and 3mb/ button. It's quite high and uses much power of pc. I've got overclocked gtx 680, and it is only able to run 14fps while watching pedestal. It is playable, but if I was you, I would make the little parts lighter, they would look as good as they are now :)

A test: I removed all the screws and the most heavy buttons from pedestal. 37mb --> 7mb, 14fps --> 25fps.

The cockpit looks promising, keep on doing a great job :D
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby FGRS » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:50 pm

Download link please?
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby F-JYL » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:51 pm

Available in git for now
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby KL-666 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:55 pm

If someone could pull it from git and put in a zip, then more people than only developers are reached.

Kind regards, Vincent
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby I-NEMO » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:49 am

Hallo jormapaappa1235,

Thanks for your msg. We are grateful for you appreciation.

As I said, our main concern - NOW - is not optimization: this is just a first sketch of what we would like to become a brand new 777.

In the immediate future, we do need testing, looking for bugs and fixes, both on the graphical and software side.
Once this very first phase would be accomplished, then we will put hands on optimization. It's a matter of time: you cannot just work on every and each 'developing' table; and - in our minds, at least in mine - we will of course try to optimize once we will have settled the new model to a fair stable state. That's why decided to offer the FG community the 777 Seattle: people who might like to fly the 777, could help us in testing it, and reporting what we may have missed. With patience and tolerance. We all are here for pleasure, isn't it?

Optimization - at graphical level - requires very much time. And it is not by eliminating "stuff" that you get a better model (from the visual standpoint); to optimize means making things better and better, by maintaining the reached standard, and by evolving, not regressing.

This takes time, because you have to think and reflect, first; then make some adjustment tests; a lot; then finalize them at any possible level. Taking into account, of course all the limitations given by the context where the model will see its life. [...just think of how many changes FG has made in just one year...and, to the point: to enjoy/test the 777 Seattle we strongly advise to update FG to latest version, with latest fgdata! ]
My forecast, though, is that we will probably get a 15-20% better FrameRate in the future. No more. The model, to look somehow visually realistic [as it will of course never be ...really 'realistic'), needs a lot of 3d objects (even more than those we included in this Pre-Release). Personally, I do not like sharp angles/corners on objects. And I do think that a much better modeling - intending 'completion' of the object to be modeled - is still required: even in the 777's pedestal section.

Besides, the rate of change of FG's core software and add-ons will certainly require more GPU power for the future (think of weather system, or shaders, or Rembrandt, or what anyone of the community might devise to increase simulation and realism, and so forth): the machine which could run FG 2.4 just a few years ago, would puff & pant running 2.12 today.
So...while FG and add-ons will naturally evolve, the same path should be followed by aircraft models. Of course, with a fair and decent good sense. And balance.
And - when talking of realism - I'm not a religious fanatic of monstruous and/or maniacal details; but - and it's just my opinion - either a model is 'complete' with good visual details, or it should not be called an acceptable model. If the aircraft has "screws" and the real life Pilot can actually see them, perceive them with his eyes while onboard, those "screws" have to be present in the simulated Cockpit (of course, the solution would be to model the "screw" with just that level of detail that would satisfy the casual look while flying; this is just a part of optimization; and on our Seattle, I did not put hands on that, yet. But, I'll certainly do...).

Would you walk out in NYC, to work or for leisure, without a dress?....or, would you like to drive a Jaguar with a raw and flat and hugly "Cockpit" ?
My personal pleasure of a flight simulation is made by a good model to fly, which - at the same time - is also good to look at (inside & outside).
The Boeing 777 had one of those very basic Cockpits, so typical of first years of FG. It used to be flown like that for years.
It will take us a couple of years of hard work to make it acceptable...both on software and graphical side.

Of course, this requires a lot of personal time, because aircrafts (old and modern ones) have a lot of parts, a lot of materials, a lot of 'lookable things'. As a graphic designer, I believe that a simulation without some decent graphic realism is not a simulation. And it's not by eliminating screws and knobs (or by making them 'hard' to be look at) that you make what is meant by optimization: both on amateur and professional standpoint.

And, of course, this is just my opinion...

Regards,

I-NEMO
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Hyde » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:45 am

KL-666 wrote in Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:21 am:I read this changelog, but did not see: Fixed wild stampede on lateral axis while engaging autopilot. Pity, but i will still retry ofcourse. But if that behaviour stays the same, i'll also drop this plane quickly again.

Cu after trying, Vincent

Sorry, KL-666. It was not mentioned but is of cause fixed with other issues not mentioned.
Please try when it's released and "if" you still have complaint please tell.

And the idea of zip file is not recommendable.
New 777 requires the latest flightgear and fgdata also. You should wait for the release.
Otherwise lots of nasal error and blank ND, not flyable.
777 will be updated until release because the ND is not completed yet.

And for the person to help testing, please submit the bug report as to do list.
http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bug ... &start=200

Thanks,
Hyde
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby I-NEMO » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:34 am

NOTICE:

Users of current Pre-Release version of our Boeing 777 Seattle should know that the ND (Navigation Display) included, is based on Canvas System. At the moment, the new Canvas ND, though, provokes a huge Frame Rate loss due to some coding still to be fixed by Canvas System's developers. Since Canvas is still under development and tuning, we offered our 777 model as one of the testing platforms for Canvas development: that's why it is included in Git's current release.
We have decided to keep it 'as is' at the moment, looking for the required fixing by the Canvas' team.
If the ND on Canvas will be usable before actual release of FG 3.0, then we will include it in the default model; otherwise we will revert NDs to old 3d sistem (no Frame Rate loss).
Thank you for you comprehension...

Regards,

The 777 Seattle Team
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Philosopher » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:16 am

ecce! this actually runs on my system.. :shock:

Just a techinical thing: There's Canvas, the rendering framework, and the Canvas ND/PFD (whatever it's called), which is what you're complaining about. (The Canvas system is remarkably sound, thanks to Tom's work. Putting Canvas to use is a little more shaky, just because it's a new system.) In addition, there's also the sides of the ND/PFD that I'm responsible for/have touched and those that I have not looked at.

Personally the Canvas ND works fine on my system – STA and WPT worked just fine, displaying instantly, while ARPT took a while to load the first time but worked fine subsequently. Other buttons of the same type had no effect as far as I saw. I didn't touch any knobs, so I was at the default range for that. I saw basically no frame rate drop from looking at or using the ND... though that would be hard to tell on my system (around 15 fps, excluding when I was moving the view, which was about ~0.5 sec frame latency). Anyways, those are the parts of the ND that I've helped with coding (or converting to be more efficient), and they seem to work fine, as far as FPS goes.

There are a few other issues, which are more implementation specific (i.e. not big problems with the structure of the Canvas ND as a whole), like the discrepancy of true vs. magnetic heading. Some of these might be my fault, and I will look at them soon. A few others might not be, but I can look at them anyways. These I will mark in the issue tracker, but for the rest of the code, I have never looked at most of it, because the ND was mainly Gijs' work (Gijs started the whole thing, Hooray and I have worked on making it useable by other aircraft – aka the 777). I would kindly suggest that these parts should be handled by y'all because you know what needs to be done better than 22 bug reports could tell me. These in particular look like easy ones:
Anyways.

One other thing I will for sure take a look at is making sure reinit works properly. But that requires shutting down Firefox, so... vale!

P.S. All of your screenshots look really nice!
Thanks,
Philosopher
(inactive but lurking occasionally...)
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby penta » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:40 pm

Just tested the aircraft and I'm really impressed by the cockpit detail! Great work!

I've made a full spherical panorama of it with Rembrandt enabled: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7713&p=198799#p198799
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby I-NEMO » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:49 am

Hallo Penta,

thanks for your appreciation from all of the 777 Seattle Team...

And thanks for the incredible panorama: I had never thought that it would have been possible to make such a panoramic view from within FG!...great!
In the future, we'll probably put something about Project 777 Seattle on FG NewsLetter: is this kind of file compatible with usual Wiki filing system?

Regards,

I-NEMO, and the Project 777 Seattle Team
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby I-NEMO » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:00 am

Ave Philosophus!

Tua 'notula' bene lexi. Cogitabo ac quam primum respondebo...

Tua experientia consiliisque tibi gratum sum. Vale!

I-NEMO
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Hyde » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:15 pm

Philosopher wrote in Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:16 am:Personally the Canvas ND works fine on my system – STA and WPT worked just fine, displaying instantly, while ARPT took a while to load the first time but worked fine subsequently.

Yes, SAT and WPT works fine now.
For ARPT, not continuously smooth. When you fly, say 5, 10 min, it happens again. Same thing happens when change the range. I prefer not stop rendering even during data loading as old ND's implementation.

I would kindly suggest that these parts should be handled by y'all because you know what needs to be done better than 22 bug reports could tell me.

I know but these are the simple tracking list made as told by Horray.
I want you to look at are
1282 is now under investigation but others are not I assume.
Could you add the comment of investigation to tracker?

Thanks for your help.
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Re: Announcing NEW Boeing 777 'Seattle' - Pre-Release

Postby Mike-G » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:52 pm

Hi Guys

Downloaded the FG 3 install zip today
run for about 4 hours using the new version of the 777 ( all installed models )
great work,, flys well and landed on auto pilot perfect ( always had proplems with the previous model)
had 2 crashes of FG but not sure if that was FG or the plane but 1 time was definatly on trying to connect the new inhouse FGcom

great job on the cockpit
i noticed some of the new switch panels were slightly out of position and seemed to be sitting proud of the rest of the consal
but like you say its and early release so no compaints here

again thanks to you guys for the plane

Rgds
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