Board index FlightGear Development Aircraft

737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Questions and discussion about creating aircraft. Flight dynamics, 3d models, cockpits, systems, animation, textures.

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby Soitanen » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:07 am

jormapaappa1235 wrote in Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:03 pm:Here're spinning tires for ya

https://www.mediafire.com/?pm39aq82gietbdr


Thanks! Pushed to git now.
Boeing 737-300. Reworked cockpit, FDM, autopilot and much more. WIP.
Boeing 737-800. WIP. Canvas PFD and ND.
Antonov An-24B. Made from scratch. Very good FDM. 3D model by Adrian. WIP.
Project Russia (some cities, based on OSM with custom objects).
Soitanen
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Version: git
OS: Linux Mint 17

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby abcaster » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:47 am

This is excellent, Michael!
The tendency to overrotation at takeoff seems to be gone... or maybe I was just lucky climbing out of LTAI :)

http://mpserver15.flightgear.org/modules/fgtracker/?FUNCT=FLIGHT&FLIGHTID=5893023

Spasiba!
abcaster
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:08 am
Location: EKCH
Callsign: LNRCX
Version: 2018.2.0
OS: Sierra

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby abcaster » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:10 pm

However something seems to have broken the reverse thrusters - or did I mess with my Flightstick configuration in a bad way?

Image
abcaster
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:08 am
Location: EKCH
Callsign: LNRCX
Version: 2018.2.0
OS: Sierra

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby Soitanen » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:34 pm

abcaster - what is wrong? Right manipulation with thrust reverser: move throttles to the idle, press "delete" key on the keyboard, wait about 2 seconds, apply thrust.
Boeing 737-300. Reworked cockpit, FDM, autopilot and much more. WIP.
Boeing 737-800. WIP. Canvas PFD and ND.
Antonov An-24B. Made from scratch. Very good FDM. 3D model by Adrian. WIP.
Project Russia (some cities, based on OSM with custom objects).
Soitanen
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Version: git
OS: Linux Mint 17

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby abcaster » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:17 pm

Soitanen wrote in Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:34 pm:abcaster - what is wrong? Right manipulation with thrust reverser: move throttles to the idle, press "delete" key on the keyboard, wait about 2 seconds, apply thrust.


It could probably be the js-configuration-file, the other day when I landed at LTAI I had the horrible experience of accelerating when I applied reverse thrust.
Today on short final at ENTC I discovered that I was unable to get below 4% MT after touch down (probably burst all tyres using the brake key like a desparate :P )
abcaster
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:08 am
Location: EKCH
Callsign: LNRCX
Version: 2018.2.0
OS: Sierra

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby abcaster » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:12 pm

Replugging the USB-stick seems to have cured the fault.
Probably something messed up by my fiddling around with settings :)
abcaster
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:08 am
Location: EKCH
Callsign: LNRCX
Version: 2018.2.0
OS: Sierra

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby RAM25 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:22 am

Hello everybody

Thank you for working on this Boeing 737, does anybody know how the canvas EHSI can be changed into a normal non canvas EHSI, this is because the EHSI canvas is white/blank on the aircraft for me due to having an older computer.
RAM25
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:14 pm
Location: Utrecht The Netherlands
Version: 3.2
OS: Windows XP

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby Soitanen » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:58 pm

RAM25, you could use older version from git (search for commit history, where I have replaced old EHSI with Canvas). And after switch to that commit you can re-apply other non-related to Canvas patches. I know, that this is possible, but don't know how to do it quick and right way, so I will not give you any commandlines examples to do this, sorry.
Boeing 737-300. Reworked cockpit, FDM, autopilot and much more. WIP.
Boeing 737-800. WIP. Canvas PFD and ND.
Antonov An-24B. Made from scratch. Very good FDM. 3D model by Adrian. WIP.
Project Russia (some cities, based on OSM with custom objects).
Soitanen
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Version: git
OS: Linux Mint 17

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby Hooray » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:36 pm

RAM25 wrote in Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:22 am:Thank you for working on this Boeing 737, does anybody know how the canvas EHSI can be changed into a normal non canvas EHSI, this is because the EHSI canvas is white/blank on the aircraft for me due to having an older computer.



Here's the instructions for the non-Canvas ND: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Navigational_Display
For a conventional HSI, you'd want to refer to the stacked instruments available in $FG_ROOT/Aircraft/Instruments-3D probably.

Note however, that it would be good to have some feedback about the nature of your problem, especially the kind of hardware/drivers you're using, i.e. using the help/about dialog:

Subject: Blank white popup window
Hooray wrote:please post your hardware specs as per the box at the top of the forum.
It seems that you are lacking some OpenGL support that is required by the new canvas system.
This has been recently reported at least once: viewtopic.php?f=68&t=20887&hilit=canvas+fbo
So please follow up with your exact hardware/software specs, including info from the HELP/ABOUT dialog.
And if you are affected by this, please consider filing a bug report so that we can look into it: http://flightgear-bugs.googlecode.com/



Subject: Blank white popup window
Hooray wrote:could the people getting "white canvases" please get in touch to test a patch ?
Basically, the idea is to check if FBO setup failed and try some more conservative alternatives like pbuffers or ARBs instead.
We can use PIXEL_BUFFER_RTT or PIXEL_BUFFER instead of FRAME_BUFFER_OBJECT: http://lists.openscenegraph.org/piperma ... 04790.html

Given that we're going to use Canvas in more and more placed, including the GUI, it would seem like a good idea to get this sorted obviously.
On the other hand, it is hard to troubleshoot this without being affected by the problem yourself :-)

it's not a new problem: http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear- ... 20103.html


Subject: white popup message

Hooray wrote:At the moment, this clearly isn't critical - because these cards are obviously very outdated and most FG features cannot expected to work on these types of hardware anyway (and 2.12 has just been released) - on the other hand, once more and more features are ported to make use of the canvas as the common 2D rendering backend (HUD, 2Dpanel, GUI etc), it would be good to know if this could be solved by optoinally using pbuffer rendering instead of FBOs as a fallback - but even just knowing if other hardcoded MFD instruments or the map dialog work, would be interesting.

Thinking along the lines of having a more basic startup mode in FlightGear, analogous to FGPanel/FGCanvas, it would be not that far-fetched that people may be using their old hardware to run multi-screen setups or other master/slave configurations, where just requiring FBOs for all machines may not be the best option.

So, again, if you are affected or know someone who is affected, please ask them to provide feedback, specifically:
- do airliners/jets with the wxradar/agradar, NavDisplay etc work or not ?
- does the map dialog work ?

If in doubt, please just post screen shots

Also, you could ask them to check if support for multiple windows works, because that should also be using offscreen-rendering internally: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Config ... ew_windows

PS: @TheTom: If in doubt, I'd suggest to get in touch with FredB, according to the devel list, he's using pbuffer fallback mode for the rembrandt/deferred rendering mode to get offscreen rendering support.



Also see: FlightGear/Canvas on dual-core Netbook (Intel GMA graphics)
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
Help write next month's newsletter !
pui2canvas | MapStructure | Canvas Development | Programming resources
Hooray
 
Posts: 11336
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 am

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby RAM25 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:52 am

First of all thank you soitanen and hooray for taking your time to answer me.

Unfortunately soitanen i do not know how to do that, i have never done something like that, i am new to flightgear so i still have a lot to learn. :)

I apologize hooray for not being very clear about my situation..i will try to explain it more clearly: i have turned GENERIC off at custom shader options (that is the reason for the white screen), when i turn it on i do get the canvas perfectly working but my frames drop from 25(where i have limited them) to 8-10..so you can understand that it is very difficult to fly like that, if i am not wrong the only realistic solution for me is having a better computer or flying non canvas ND aircraft.

Thank you guys.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Windows XP 32bit
Intel Core 2CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz 997MHz, 2.00GB of RAM
ATI Mobility RADEON X1300 512MB
RAM25
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:14 pm
Location: Utrecht The Netherlands
Version: 3.2
OS: Windows XP

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby Hooray » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:25 am

RAM25 wrote in Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:52 am:I apologize hooray for not being very clear about my situation..i will try to explain it more clearly: i have turned GENERIC off at custom shader options (that is the reason for the white screen), when i turn it on i do get the canvas perfectly working but my frames drop from 25(where i have limited them) to 8-10..so you can understand that it is very difficult to fly like that, if i am not wrong the only realistic solution for me is having a better computer or flying non canvas ND aircraft.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Windows XP 32bit
Intel Core 2CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz 997MHz, 2.00GB of RAM
ATI Mobility RADEON X1300 512MB


Sorry for not getting back to this earlier, I somehow missed your response.
Anyway, you still need to be more specific about your problem - so that we can try to reproduce it.
The way you describe the problem, I don't know anything about the aircraft/scenery you're using, which may also have considerable impact on performance.
If this still is referring to just tthe 737-300 (which this thread is about), what airport did you use ?
I am asking because Canvas in and of itself isn't necessarily slow - a Canvas is just a texture after all. What makes Canvas "slow" is the way the texture is updated, i.e. through Nasal calls - some constructs are known to be slow and inefficient, while others perform much better.
In other words, having a 50% impact on performance is surprising, unless there are other contributing factors. Then again, 25 fps isn't much to begin with ...
I also surprised learning that enabling/disabling shaders seems to affect Canvas, i.e. it being rendered properly - as far as I am aware, we do not currently use, or even support, shaders directly.
And "white canvas" error reports were usually made by people without FBO support.
For testing/troubleshooting purposes, I'd suggest to use the minimal startup profile (as detailed on the wiki) and then use the EQUIPMENT/Map (Canvas) menu instead, which will internally use the ND code - if that ALSO doesn't work well enough, your system is simply not fast enough to support these features - if it does work though, the problem might be unrelated to Canvas/Nasal directly, i.e. could be due to a combination of factors.
Overall, it would be better to file a bug report/support request over at the issue tracker so that we can better track this issue

Besides, given your hardware specs, you might be correct that current/upcoming FG versions may not be particularly suited for a 32 bit/2gb system with a GPU with only 512 MB of VRAM.
If you'd like to understand the nitty gritty details, you can refer to this: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Use_the_system_monitor
But the essentials of is that your system is fairly "average" these days, and that FlightGear is not particularly optimized either - the more features you're using, the more "fighting for resources" is taking place. In addition, while Canvas itself is primarily implemented in C++, it is being updated via scripting space (Nasal) usually - and scripts obviously cause even more issues on slower systems. Essentially there are hundreds, or even thousands of properties, being updated that trigger updates/re-rendering of Canvas textures
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
Help write next month's newsletter !
pui2canvas | MapStructure | Canvas Development | Programming resources
Hooray
 
Posts: 11336
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 am

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby Soitanen » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:28 pm

Hi all!

Some offtop news from me. I have changed my work, now I'm pilot-instructor in 737-800 flight simulator. This simulator is full motion, created for entertainment and not certified for real pilot training. It's installed in one of shopping-entertainment centers in Saint-Petersburg. Flight dynamics and visual part - X-Plane, systems - Project Magenta.

So, now I'm interested in good 737-800 in FG too.
I'm not falling down the 737-300. Currently I'm re-doing pitch channel to match real data. But it's not so fast and easy process, so it will take some time.

And some photos from full flight sim!

Cockpit on frame.
Image

Screen installed.
Image

View from backside.
Image

View from inside, projectors are off.
Image
Image

View after completing assembly.
Image

Real stewardesses was our guests on opening. I'm in FO place.
Image
Boeing 737-300. Reworked cockpit, FDM, autopilot and much more. WIP.
Boeing 737-800. WIP. Canvas PFD and ND.
Antonov An-24B. Made from scratch. Very good FDM. 3D model by Adrian. WIP.
Project Russia (some cities, based on OSM with custom objects).
Soitanen
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Version: git
OS: Linux Mint 17

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby Milo » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:05 pm

Hello All,
I fly this aircraft in for a virtual airline. I have to use routes but they are not working since I pulled the latest git update of fgdata.
Since the route manager update, when I bigin the flight, the route manager jumps to the last waypoint without following the route.
Can anyone help me to fix that.
Tanx in advance.
GVX0250 _ FGFS v.Git _ Win10_ Asus N76V, RAM8GB, CPU: i7 2.4
Milo
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:11 pm
Location: Luxembourg
Callsign: GAX0250
Version: Git
OS: Win8.1

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby Soitanen » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:15 pm

I found this bug too. Probably it's not a bug, but feature, who knows! To fix this behaviour you need to comment execution of code, which calculates distance before turn. I can commit this change to git 20 minutes.
Boeing 737-300. Reworked cockpit, FDM, autopilot and much more. WIP.
Boeing 737-800. WIP. Canvas PFD and ND.
Antonov An-24B. Made from scratch. Very good FDM. 3D model by Adrian. WIP.
Project Russia (some cities, based on OSM with custom objects).
Soitanen
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Version: git
OS: Linux Mint 17

Re: 737-300 Classic - New and Improved

Postby Soitanen » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:36 pm

Bugfix pushed into repository.
Boeing 737-300. Reworked cockpit, FDM, autopilot and much more. WIP.
Boeing 737-800. WIP. Canvas PFD and ND.
Antonov An-24B. Made from scratch. Very good FDM. 3D model by Adrian. WIP.
Project Russia (some cities, based on OSM with custom objects).
Soitanen
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Version: git
OS: Linux Mint 17

PreviousNext

Return to Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests