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Mirage 2000-5

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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby Texan78 » Sun May 07, 2017 7:04 am

Hi everyone,
First of all thanks to the developpers for their incredible job on that beautiful aircraft that looks awesome.
I send you this message because I downloaded the last official release of the Mirage 2000 and I can't fly with it: Once the simulation is launched I get that error:
Code: Select all
Nasal runtime error: nil used in numeric context
  at /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 428
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 334
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 601
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5.nas, line 123
Nasal runtime error: nil used in numeric context
  at /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 428
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 334
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 601
That worked

I already had this error with the unstable released on the git of 5H1N0B1 but I wait this release hoping that the bug will be corrected but it's not! If anyone could help me please...
Thanks
Yours faitfhfully
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby hardba11 » Sun May 07, 2017 10:10 am

Hello Texan78

I can't reproduce this bug, could you be more precise ?
- where did you get the zip ?
- how did you install it ?
- on which OS (windows/linux) ?
- how do you launch (Qt launcher/shell/fgrun) ?
- which version do you use (m2000-5, m2000-5B) ?
- when exactly does the error display ?
- what is the result (crash/unserviceable instrument or command) ?

to everybody : does anyone have the same problem ?

thanks
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby Thorsten » Sun May 07, 2017 11:46 am

Nope, I don't see that particular problem (FGAddon pull, tested under my Win10)

I do see issues with the AP engaging/disengaging gracefully - after a longer stretch under AP control, I found going back to manual impossible. I suspect the plane is always under some kind of FCS, and there was an integrator windup of some kind, but it never converged into anything resembling stable attitude.
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby 5H1N0B1 » Sun May 07, 2017 12:17 pm

@Texan78 :
The property that return nil, in line 428 is this one :
Code: Select all
var crs_offset = crs_set - getprop("/orientation/heading-magnetic-deg");

It should not return nil. In addition to hardball questions, wich version of flightgear do you have ?
(We will investigate, but first we have to reproduce the bug)

@Torsten : Does desctivate the autotrim in the options solve the issue ? The autotrim causes sometime calcultation issue with the FCS.

Thanks to all for your feed back

5H1N0B1
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby Thorsten » Sun May 07, 2017 12:50 pm

Does desctivate the autotrim in the options solve the issue ? The autotrim causes sometime calcultation issue with the FCS.


No, I had that off (I found it detrimental to my style of piloting...)

Dependent on how your FCS is set up, it may be relevant that I'm piloting with a mouse, so unlike a stick this would not go to neutral when the AP is engaged and I let go of controls -which may explain integrator windup you didn't see in your tests.

Also AP engage appears pretty hard, I got a redout more than once - though I can live with that.

Btw - what's the approach speed? And what does 'reactor on/off' mean?
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby Johan G » Sun May 07, 2017 1:03 pm

"Reacteur" is French for jet engine (and a host of other things, like "reacteur neuclear", nuclear reactor) so it is often mistranslated to "reactor".
Low-level flying — It's all fun and games till someone looses an engine. (Paraphrased from a YouTube video)
Improving the Dassault Mirage F1 (Wiki, Forum, GitLab. Work in slow progress)
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby 5H1N0B1 » Sun May 07, 2017 1:31 pm

For the mirage 2000, the maximum speed at which the undercarriage can be extended is 195 Kts.
The never-exceed speed for the undercarriage is 280 kts. Approach speed is about 175kts, landing speed with 15% fuel and two AAMs is about 155kts.

Reactor on/off mean "jet engine on/off" this is a translation error. (btw where did you find this error ?)
FCS is better configured for stick. But I have to improve it for mouse, I'll put that on my priorities. + AP issues
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby Thorsten » Sun May 07, 2017 1:51 pm

The key bindings on the Wiki have the ominous 'reactor'

http://wiki.flightgear.org/Dassault_Mirage_2000-5

and so does the in-sim help. So I gather the } really ought to be called 'autostart'?

For the mirage 2000, the maximum speed at which the undercarriage can be extended is 195 Kts.
The never-exceed speed for the undercarriage is 280 kts. Approach speed is about 175kts, landing speed with 15% fuel and two AAMs is about 155kts.


Thanks - it'd be cool to briefly mention these numbers somewhere in the aircraft help - that's the first place I check when trying out a new craft to get a feeling for what I'm trying to do.
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby Texan78 » Sun May 07, 2017 2:54 pm

Hi evverybody and thanks for you replies.
So I use Flightgear 2017.1.3,
Linux: Ubuntu 15.04,
I took the last zip published by you: http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/f ... e-2000.zip,
I installed the folder "Mirage 2000" in my Flightgear Aircrafts folder,
I use the m2000-5 and m2000-5b and both send me this error,
I use the Flightgear launcher with the console and the command line:
Code: Select all
Flightgear/install/flightgear/bin/fgfs --launcher

And the result is that flight controls don't answer to the orders of my joystick and that is the same for the engine and the thrust,
Here is the full console message:
Code: Select all
Reading materials from /home/pop/Flightgear/install/flightgear/fgdata/Materials/regions/materials.xml
Reading systems from Path "/home/pop/Flightgear/install/flightgear/fgdata/Aircraft/Generic/generic-systems.xml"
Initializing HUD Instrument
Reading sound sound from Path "/home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Sounds/m2000-5-sound.xml"
Creating subsystems took:789
Splash screen progress binding-subsystems
Cannot find property-rule configuration file 'Aircraft/Generic/g-forces.xml'.
Cannot find property-rule configuration file 'Aircraft/Mirage-2000/System/views-Zoom.xml'.
Loading local weather routines...
Animated jetways ... initialized
*** LOADING AI_list.nas ... ***
*** LOADING doors.nas ... ***
*** LOADING m2000-5-controls.nas ... ***
*** LOADING m2000-5-electrical.nas ... ***
*** LOADING generic-yasim-engine.nas ... ***
*** LOADING radar2.nas ... ***
*** LOADING m2000-5-fuel.nas ... ***
*** LOADING m2000-5-hydraulical.nas ... ***
*** LOADING m2000-5_mfd.nas ... ***
*** LOADING liveries.nas ... ***
*** LOADING light.nas ... ***
*** LOADING m2000-5.nas ... ***
/instrumentation/radar2/targets
/instrumentation/radar2/targets
*** LOADING m2000-5-flightdirector.nas ... ***
*** LOADING terrain_follow.nas ... ***
*** LOADING SAS.nas ... ***
*** LOADING transpondeur.nas ... ***
*** LOADING ND.nas ... ***
*** LOADING MAP.nas ... ***
*** LOADING m2000-5-controls.nas ... ***
*** LOADING HUD.nas ... ***
Size:68
*** LOADING MiscRwr.nas ... ***
*** LOADING mini-hud.nas ... ***
*** LOADING environment.nas ... ***
*** LOADING weapons.nas ... ***
*** LOADING instrumentation.nas ... ***
*** LOADING ext_stores.nas ... ***
*** LOADING MP.nas ... ***
*** LOADING missiles.nas ... ***
*** LOADING missile_GroundTargeting.nas ... ***
*** LOADING damage.nas ... ***
*** LOADING tanker.nas ... ***
reloading /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/tanker.nas
*** LOADING MissileView.nas ... ***
*** LOADING blackout.nas ... ***
Unrecognized value for /sim/presets/speed-set:
Model load Nimitz /ai/models/carrier
Model load Nimitz /ai/models/carrier[1]
Electrical ... Check
Hydraulical ... Check
Fuel ... Check
Stability Augmentation System ... Check
Engine ... Check
Intrumentation ... Check
Radar ... Check
Flight Director ... Check
MFD ...Check
Transponder ... Check
system loop ... Check
minihud ... Check
MFD ... Check
Electrical System ... OK
hydraulical System ... OK
fuel System ... OK
Nasal runtime error: nil used in numeric context
  at /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 428
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 334
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 601
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5.nas, line 123
Nasal runtime error: nil used in numeric context
  at /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 428
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 334
  called from: /home/pop/Documents/Flightgear/Aircraft/Mirage-2000/Nasal/m2000-5_flightdirector.nas, line 601
That worked
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby hardba11 » Sun May 07, 2017 3:34 pm

Thorsten wrote in Sun May 07, 2017 1:51 pm:The key bindings on the Wiki have the ominous 'reactor'
http://wiki.flightgear.org/Dassault_Mirage_2000-5

I've just updated the wiki page ;)

Thorsten wrote in Sun May 07, 2017 1:51 pm:it'd be cool to briefly mention these numbers somewhere in the aircraft help - that's the first place I check when trying out a new craft to get a feeling for what I'm trying to do.

I've just updated my todolist ;)

@5H1N0B1,
To be sure the wiki is correct, as I have a qwerty keyboard (same key for ] and } with shift) how do you autostart the 2000 on your french keyboard layout ? (shift-$ or alt-gr =)
Last edited by hardba11 on Sun May 07, 2017 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby hardba11 » Sun May 07, 2017 3:49 pm

@texan78

As the bug doesn't seem to appear for everybody, it could be because of your persistent settings : http://wiki.flightgear.org/Properties_p ... n_sessions

could you temporarly rename your flightgear's settings in your home directory and launch again the m2000-5 ?
I don't know this directory's name on linux, it could be named .fgfs/, you could rename if as .fgfs.BACKUP/
If nothing changes after the test (if you still have the bug), you can restor it (rename back your .fgfs.BACKUP/ as .fgfs/)
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby 5H1N0B1 » Sun May 07, 2017 4:56 pm

@hardbal1 : in AZERTY "}" is done with "AltGr"
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby Thorsten » Sun May 07, 2017 5:28 pm

On a related note - after finally figuring out how to use the speedbrake, it seems likewise awkward if you don't have a stick. It seems to be implemented to be out as long as a button is pressed - however the key binding Crtl+b actually blocks mouse input, so you can either fly or have SB out, but not both at the same time.

May I suggest to implement the key binding as a toggle using its own functions?

Also, how do you guys manage aerial refueling? I get the feeling the FCS is fighting me all the time. What I need to stay behind a tanker is the ability to make minute adjustments to elevator and bank angle. I have done this in lots of planes in FG, from the F-14 over the F-16 and the A-6, I've managed the SR-71, the English Electric Lightning,... heck, I've written a sizable chunk of the wiki article on the subject. With the Mirage, it's just damn hard to get into a tight contact radius.

Auto-trim just snaps from one state into the next, it feels like it has a couple of discrete bank angles and attitudes and just locks to the nearest one. No auto-trim still seems to have deadbands, if I move controls just a little, nothing happens, if I move more it starts suddenly, and it's damn hard not to over-correct. I can't seem to get the aircraft to make tiny changes.
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby hardba11 » Sun May 07, 2017 6:52 pm

5H1N0B1 wrote in Sun May 07, 2017 4:56 pm:@hardbal1 : in AZERTY "}" is done with "AltGr"

thanks shino, so I updated the wiki and put only } key (and not shift ] key which would be ok only on qwerty keyboards)

Thorsten wrote in Sun May 07, 2017 5:28 pm:On a related note - after finally figuring out how to use the speedbrake, it seems likewise awkward if you don't have a stick. It seems to be implemented to be out as long as a button is pressed - however the key binding Crtl+b actually blocks mouse input, so you can either fly or have SB out, but not both at the same time.

I fly the 2000 with the mouse too and I was told that the behaviour of b key is wheelbrake on ground (gear down) and speedbrake airborn.
So you can try to push only b ;)
Last edited by hardba11 on Mon May 08, 2017 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mirage 2000-5

Postby Texan78 » Mon May 08, 2017 5:03 am

Hi,
hardba11 wrote in Sun May 07, 2017 3:49 pm:@texan78

As the bug doesn't seem to appear for everybody, it could be because of your persistent settings : http://wiki.flightgear.org/Properties_p ... n_sessions

could you temporarly rename your flightgear's settings in your home directory and launch again the m2000-5 ?
I don't know this directory's name on linux, it could be named .fgfs/, you could rename if as .fgfs.BACKUP/
If nothing changes after the test (if you still have the bug), you can restor it (rename back your .fgfs.BACKUP/ as .fgfs/)

I have done it and the problem was still present once the directory has been renamed ".fgfs.BACKUP/" and even when I renamed it back ".fgfs/" :(
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