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F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

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Nasal script for binding the pickle button

Postby alexlee188 » Thu May 14, 2020 3:30 am

Please may I know the script for bomb pickle so that I can bond a joystick button to it.

Thanks

Alex
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby PH-JAKE » Thu May 14, 2020 1:26 pm

Currently at commit c3fae67c0ce8d9cdf30245a59e89fe6359cd8cda, found:

1. Can't operate the TEST: MAL & IND LTS button unless ELEC is on MAIN PWR (Engine running).
2. Can't operate TEST: TEST/NORM/MAINT switch at all, under any ELEC setting.

Awesome plane, keep it up.
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Necolatis » Thu May 14, 2020 3:01 pm

This is the weapon pickle trigger:

Code: Select all
<binding>
                    <command>property-assign</command>
                    <property>controls/armament/trigger</property>
                    <value>1</value>
                </binding>
                <mod-up>
                    <binding>
                        <command>property-assign</command>
                        <property>controls/armament/trigger</property>
                        <value>0</value>
                    </binding>
                </mod-up>
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Necolatis » Thu May 14, 2020 3:05 pm

PH-JAKE wrote in Thu May 14, 2020 1:26 pm:Currently at commit c3fae67c0ce8d9cdf30245a59e89fe6359cd8cda, found:

1. Can't operate the TEST: MAL & IND LTS button unless ELEC is on MAIN PWR (Engine running).
2. Can't operate TEST: TEST/NORM/MAINT switch at all, under any ELEC setting.

Awesome plane, keep it up.


The TEST switch have to be held in. So mouse over it and hold down your left mouse button. Or drag it.

Yeah, if the MAL IND & LTS button don't have elec power to work then you cannot push it right now.
Consider this a bug, we will look into it.
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby alexlee188 » Thu May 14, 2020 3:52 pm

Thanks.
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby PH-JAKE » Thu May 14, 2020 9:19 pm

Necolatis wrote in Thu May 14, 2020 3:05 pm:
PH-JAKE wrote in Thu May 14, 2020 1:26 pm:Currently at commit c3fae67c0ce8d9cdf30245a59e89fe6359cd8cda, found:

1. Can't operate the TEST: MAL & IND LTS button unless ELEC is on MAIN PWR (Engine running).
2. Can't operate TEST: TEST/NORM/MAINT switch at all, under any ELEC setting.

Awesome plane, keep it up.


The TEST switch have to be held in. So mouse over it and hold down your left mouse button. Or drag it.

Yeah, if the MAL IND & LTS button don't have elec power to work then you cannot push it right now.
Consider this a bug, we will look into it.


Indeed the TEST switch does work like you describe. Never encountered a switch like this before in FG, good to know it exists.

As for the MAL IND & LTS button, not a big problem, good to know it's on the list.

And again: Awesome plane, keep it up.
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Octal450 » Fri May 15, 2020 2:19 am

Dear Thorsten,
Necolatis wrote in Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:45 pm:
Thorsten wrote in Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:31 pm:* Since I'm busy for ~30 seconds locking a target I let the AP fly the plane straight - however, it turns out the AP can't handle an uneven load properly. once the first Paveway is released the second approach is a mess because the AP can't seem to hold attitude then - which is vexing. Only after the second Paveway is gone and the loadout is again symmetric it gets better.


You will have to ask Josh this. He did the A/P. However the FBW is not so automatic in roll/yaw as it is in pitch, so its fully up to the A/P.
Due to the yaw and roll, I often drop bombs in pairs. In the real F-16 you can also set to both drop in pair and ripple drop single or pairs with some distance.


That is intentional, the A/P has a clamp in the flybywire of how much he is allowed to demand. I set the A/P to feed into Necolatis' control system as he instructed, and thus the A/P will never try to demand more roll command as allowed by the FCS (for integrator windup prevention) if the required roll demand is higher than the clamp, the A/P will sit there at max clamp - once the load is more balenced, or something else happens that means the clamp is enough to stop it, the A/P will re-calculate (but you know this probably)

Thorsten wrote in Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:19 am:I dunno - at some point I have to decide - do I treat someone as an adult person who makes his own decisions and takes responsibility for them or as a child who throws tantrums which pass over?

Well, I agree with you and I will take responsibility for my fast temper and quick judgements. This was during the time that my new doctors and I had just begun to figure out why since November 2017 I had extreme pain every single day, and since mid 2016 intermittently - somewhat due to misdiagnosis by stupid previous doctors giving me medications that only made my problem worse (positive feedback loop if you will). On top of that, I was working at home to keep some money coming in - it was a very stressful and frustrating time (which was worsened due to taking on more projects and goals then I could meet - something I am no longer doing) and thus all I can do is offer my apology for my inconsistent "attendance" with FG over that timeperiod (beginning actually in mid 2016 to early 2020 when things start to be figured out)

Warm Regards,
Josh
What I do: Flight Dynamics, Systems, Canvas Displays, Autoflight, FlyByWire, Cockpit Animations
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Thorsten » Fri May 15, 2020 12:07 pm

(Needless to say, I didn't get much time to look at the F-16 either, I've been home-schooling my kids for the last weeks...)

That is intentional, the A/P has a clamp in the flybywire of how much he is allowed to demand.


I guess the question of uneven payload is not really that much for the integrator to solve, but I'd assume it's best handled by a trim bias. The computer presumably knows that I have an asymmetric load, so it can simply bias the elevons by some number and let the integrator solve the rest.

Given that the F-16 usually is *very* good in serving the needs of a single combat pilot working without WSO, I believe the real plane would handle that case somehow.

Well, I agree with you and I will take responsibility for my fast temper and quick judgements.


Don't sweat it - enjoy what you're doing, then you'll continue to do it well :D
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Octal450 » Sat May 16, 2020 1:42 am

Thorsten wrote in Fri May 15, 2020 12:07 pm:I guess the question of uneven payload is not really that much for the integrator to solve, but I'd assume it's best handled by a trim bias. The computer presumably knows that I have an asymmetric load, so it can simply bias the elevons by some number and let the integrator solve the rest.

Given that the F-16 usually is *very* good in serving the needs of a single combat pilot working without WSO, I believe the real plane would handle that case somehow.


Hallo Thorsten,
The FBW and A/P has clamp of 20 degrees per second - but this is actually a LIE. It is simply the demanded elevon position, it doesn't care about the actual roll rate. Needless to say, for a jet fighter than does what, 200degps at least, its tiny. So lets explore:

If the plane is levelled, and a left side weight is added with A/P on:
- roll rate error becomes larger suddenly
- derivative reacts to reduce the change in rate
- proportional reacts to correct the error
- and integrator begins to slew the neutral point to null steady state
This can be observed in the video of Leto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSkxDhy8-zk at 28:08.
You can see within 1 second the A/P has already finished this job and is sitting pretty again.

Now what if the heavier?
integrator will slew all the way to max clamp, and then stop. Now the A/P cannot do anything more to stop the roll movements, because the authority is already maxed out. Until the error changes enough that the command can be reduced, the integrator will continue to sit there.

So, does the computer input a trim? Leto is not sure, neither am I, so I guess we will decide whether or not to add it - I do think it would be there though! So it is an interesting solution and will think on it!

Kind Regards,
Josh
What I do: Flight Dynamics, Systems, Canvas Displays, Autoflight, FlyByWire, Cockpit Animations
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby psyduck » Sat May 16, 2020 1:59 pm

fantastic job :shock:
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby PH-JAKE » Sat May 16, 2020 9:20 pm

I think the model is a bit light on tags. Looking at https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fg ... logTags.py this could be a relevant collection of tags in f16-base.xml for this capable aircraft:

Code: Select all
        <tags>
            <tag>fighter</tag>
            <tag>bomber</tag>
            <tag>interceptor</tag>
            <tag>general-dynamics</tag>
            <tag>1970s</tag>
            <tag>1980s</tag>
            <tag>1990s</tag>
            <tag>2000s</tag>
            <tag>2010s</tag>
            <tag>coldwar</tag>
            <tag>gulfwar1</tag>
            <tag>gulfwar2</tag>
            <tag>combat</tag>
            <tag>midwing</tag>
            <tag>hud</tag>
            <tag>ifr</tag>
            <tag>refuel</tag>
            <tag>retractable-gear</tag>
            <tag>supersonic</tag>
            <tag>tail-hook</tag>
            <tag>afterburner</tag>
            <tag>jet</tag>
            <tag>single-engine</tag>
        </tags>
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby J Maverick 16 » Sat May 16, 2020 11:15 pm

PH-JAKE wrote in Sat May 16, 2020 9:20 pm:I think the model is a bit light on tags.

It has been addressed already by me about a week ago in the development repo on Git and will be available in the next update to FGAddon. Thanks for pointing it out btw! :D
Regards, Mav
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby psyduck » Mon May 18, 2020 6:42 pm

can't set radar to ground mode or activate the camera for ground targets

Image
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Necolatis » Mon May 18, 2020 7:10 pm

You need to give the TGP power. See the HDPT switches on right panel.
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby psyduck » Mon May 18, 2020 7:30 pm

ok, i try.
Last edited by psyduck on Tue May 19, 2020 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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