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F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Hooray » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:47 am

Philosopher wrote in Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:59 am:Something like this (composed on my iPod, so no guarantees):


lol, I didn't even know that IPods these days can be used for writing source code or even for surfing the web!

BTW: I can only imagine how awkward that must be, i.e. without a PC and having to use an IPod to write text, so I'd really suggest to get an Android phone then - it runs Linux, it has WIFI and you can even get HSDPA/HSUPA flatrates for very little money in most countries ... heck, there are even people working on porting FG to Android, too! And there are lots of bluetooth peripherals available too (keyboards etc), you can even connect a screen to get a desktop replacement:

Image
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Philosopher » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:03 am

Lol, nice "phone"

Now now little children, let's stop hijacking a perfectly good thread. Tsk Tsk.

All I really had to do was type into the code blocks and ignore spellcheck.

Now, as for android, I certainly would get it if there was a non-phone option. Parents only let my brother get a phone last year when he started traveling with the tennis team. They only just got me an iPod! Now let's count out blessings (1...2...3..........infinity and 1.....) and say we're lucky that iOS isn't a complete flop, for being proprietary, and that we're lucky windows phone is only for phones. Now my brother is trying to get me the jailbreak it, but you still can't make a 51-card deck into a library. Not possible.

P.S. let's hope that Rembrandt is left out of the android version ;)
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Johan G » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:47 am

Johan G wrote in Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:05 pm:
Philosopher wrote in Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:28 pm:...the canvas system should allow for a "real" 3D HUD, as the position will never change on the splitter screen...

...
In practical terms that means that if you for example are using head tracking software, dynamic cockpit view or just adjusts your seat height, the HUD image should move in relation to the HUD combiner frame, but stay fixed in relation to a fixed point at infinite distance, say the horizon.
...
EDIT: The HUD image will also change size in relation to the combiner frame if you move away from it or closer to it.

Philosopher wrote in Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:59 am:Sorry for that, Johan G, I just knew I was going to be wrong as soon as I posted it, but I ignored my sub-conscious saying "Don't talk about things that you don't know!" Well, as I said before after forgetting my brother's music for him, at least we learn from our mistakes :P. Thanks for the correction. I stand corrected, and stand down. I'll keep my mouth on things I can test, like Nasal ;).


Just to clear any misunderstandings I didn't mean that it would be impossible, just that there is a few more parameters to take into consideration, so no need to keep your mouth. :wink:

In fact I think that the only two parameters to consider is the view position and the size and shape of the aperture of the HUD that emits the HUD image towards the combiner glass.

I would guess that the first parameter could be handled by scaling and moving around the canvas depending on the view position using xml animations or nasal and that the last parameter could be handled by the size and shape of the area that will be textured by the canvas, so that if the HUD image falls outside the edge of the HUD aperture it simply wont be displayed.
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Blackbird » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:25 am

I'm still kicking, I'm the guy who made that updated TDL. I have a bit of work on the Data Entry Display and the MFDs, and was changing around the property tree for better organization. Erik sent me the new meshes, and I'm back on developing the F-16.
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Philosopher » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:55 pm

Thanks for contacting us, blackbird.

I found a MLU manual online at scribd. I'll look through it and tell you what I find, I've already found that there are 4 HUD modes with one selected by the gear handle. It should be very helpful on the HUD and MFDs as well as the ICP and switches.

ICP:
• If you are in NAV (default) or A-G mode and you press the A-A button, it will go to A-A mode. If you now press the A-A button (while in A-A mode) it will go to NAV mode. Same thing with A-G. The HUD will always be in landing mode with the gear down.
• It looks like we'll need four picks for the RTN/SEQ/UP/DWN switch to move it each of the four ways to navigate through the DED.
• I replaced the ICP with a manual update (called every time the switch is clicked) and commented out all lines related to _loop_ in icp.nas, aka 842 and 844-848. Here's the updated icp.xml:
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>

<PropertyList>

 <path>icp.ac</path>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>entr</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "entr");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>rcl</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "RCL");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>rtn_seq</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "RTN");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>com1</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "COM1");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>com2</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "COM2");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>iff</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "IFF");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>list</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "LIST");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>a-a</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "A-A");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>a-g</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "A-G");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>0</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "0");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>1</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "1");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>2</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "2");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>3</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "3");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>4</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "4");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>5</object-name>
  <action>
  <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "5");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>6</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "6");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>7</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "7");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>8</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "8");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

 <animation>
  <type>pick</type>
  <visible>true</visible>
  <object-name>9</object-name>
  <action>
   <button>0</button>
   <binding>
    <command>nasal</command>
    <script>
     setprop("controls/avionics/icp/key", "9");
     f16.icp.update();
    </script>
   </binding>
  </action>
 </animation>

</PropertyList>

Could someone confirm that this works and maybe update it on Git?

As for the HUD, it will definitely need to be a canvas, and there'll be properties to toggle individual parts of it (see the manual).

Next thing that should get done (IMO): picking the cockpit and adding switches.

P.S. I also corrected the tabs above. They were very bad before, horrible, illegible!
Thanks,
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Blackbird » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:32 pm

I agree, we need a ton of pick animations. I'll try to run your updates today. In addition to the MLU manual, Falcon 4.0 has a great reference for the systems of the Raptor.
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby prince.muga » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:38 am

Any new update?? :D
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby El Flauta » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:53 am

A Block 50's Flight Manual is available on Avialogs, too
http://www.avialogs.com/list/itemlist/category/534-f-16falcon
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby erik » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:10 am

It's important for blackbird to update his git repository regularly and open it up to commits from other developers (direct or by sending patches).

It seems like some developers who expressed their desire to help are waiting for nothing to happen.
I still like to think it is important to collaborate here instead of someone hijacking the development.

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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby xiii » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:04 pm

There are so many announcement like "hey, listen carefully, I'm going to work on the f16..." that nobobody dares to do a single thing on it...
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Philosopher » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:20 pm

I agree completely. Also, he said that he doesn't have the latest version up yet, which complicates it even more.... Sigh.... Not to mention the 200+ page manual, which is rather dense, not to mention spread-out and lengthy. I would develop if I had time, but I really don't have time ('specially on the computer). I suppose I could get out a legal sheet of paper and go through the manual noting all the functions of the ICP per page of the DED and some other stuff, like say the MFDs. I'll try that tonight, see how far I get :).

Also, we need to make a decision on what systems to model, like missiles, radar, etc. I think we need to get at least as far as the ICP and DED, and fake the MFDs as much as possible, meaning some features might not do anything but should still be there. Also, implementing Rembrandt and Canvas would be nice, though I don't have either (yet).
Thanks,
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby xiii » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:18 pm

Hi all,

Well, before adding something new into the f16, it would be better to clean what became an awfull mess. We have 5 versions with different liveries and different cokpit layout. 4 cokpit layout, at least 2 of them are used. Cockpit files are duplicated into several folders, some are used some not. Some 3D models are displayed two time on the same place, instruments available on a shared basis are just partly copied on groups gathering cockpit structure instead of being placed from a simple xml call. 3D models are full of bad or useless surfaces. In the same time the main fuselage model is the lightest possible and nobody gain advantage of it due to insanely large textures.

I would be very happy to help again on this model but it needs first a very serious cleaning. And I wont do it 4 time on each version just to know that the inside color of the cockpit is light grey or dark grey.

There are two possibilities.
- Remove things piece by piece until having a clean single version, well organized and ready for further dev. This mean a regression which can last a certain time.
- Fork the model with a new name and start from scratch importing only the necessary parts to do something simple, clean and maintainable. This allow people to continue to enjoy their favorite liveries, while we work on a simpler but better model.

In any case I'd like Erik to keep with the FDM stuff. But going further keeping such a messy structure is just a waste of time.

Erik, comments ?

Alexis
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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby erik » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:46 am

xiii wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:18 pm:Well, before adding something new into the f16, it would be better to clean what became an awfull mess. We have 5 versions with different liveries and different cokpit layout. 4 cokpit layout, at least 2 of them are used. Cockpit files are duplicated into several folders, some are used some not.

It might seem a bit daunting at first but it actually a quite powerful setup. You now can model several different models and block variants. I'm not aware of any unused files or models though.
Some 3D models are displayed two time on the same place, instruments available on a shared basis are just partly copied on groups gathering cockpit structure instead of being placed from a simple xml call. 3D models are full of bad or useless surfaces. In the same time the main fuselage model is the lightest possible and nobody gain advantage of it due to insanely large textures

Also I don't get the "full of bad or useless surfaces" statement. Can you elaborate?
I would be very happy to help again on this model but it needs first a very serious cleaning. And I wont do it 4 time on each version just to know that the inside color of the cockpit is light grey or dark grey.

There's more to that and I think you know. It represents the different block models available and it's associated cockpit layout. This is just representing real life.
There are two possibilities.
- Remove things piece by piece until having a clean single version, well organized and ready for further dev. This mean a regression which can last a certain time.
- Fork the model with a new name and start from scratch importing only the necessary parts to do something simple, clean and maintainable. This allow people to continue to enjoy their favorite liveries, while we work on a simpler but better model.

One clean version just won't work due to the different version of the real craft. You're free to fork of course but I would vote against thats since it will introduce even more duplicate work.

I'm open to a restructuring of the model but not limit it to just one block type and version.

Granted, the f16at has been fun but is highly out of date so if it gets to stay it probably needs a different directory.

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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby erik » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:34 am

For those who wondered, the discussion has been taken off line to discuss some boring details.

Let's make clear that the official repository for the F-16 is FlightGear GIT. Any other repository is for personal convenience.
I really hope we hear from blackbird again because the situation worries me. xiii pointed out some important issues which needs to be addressed but the development situation is unclear to me right now.

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Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status

Postby Philosopher » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:22 pm

Once you figure something out, I'll be happy to work on it for you. I did send Blackbird a PM and I'm hoping he'll respond (he hasn't been on since the day he registered). Here's the PM he sent to me:

Blackbird wrote:Re: F-16 upgraded to 'production' status
Sent: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:32 am 
From: Blackbird 
To: Philosopher 
The code on the GIT is a bit old, I made a few updates afterwards, with better commenting and such. I agree the amount of setprops is indeed large, and the update is too quick. However, I was in the process of creating an F-16 main loop. I'm a bit of an amateur, having never worked with nasal, and xml (mostly Ada, C++, C, and VHDL).
Blackbird


Also, are you saying that Blackbird can use his GIT, but should ultimately push the changes to gitorious.org/fg, which will be the official repository? Or is it not that repository?

Thanks,
Philosopher

P.S. I'll try and get a GIT account soon. Might as well get a wiki while I'm at it.
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