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Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby polly » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:05 pm

Don't worry, omega95, your PID's are not escaping PID-OScope's cruel gaze ..
Image

It would be great if the nasal could output a one-liner on the console each time a mode switch takes place; for instance this particular runaway is after holding a high pitch for a few seconds, it's difficult after the fact to figure .. "What's it doing now ?" tm
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby Hooray » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:26 pm

polly wrote in Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:05 pm:It would be great if the nasal could output a one-liner on the console each time a mode switch takes place; for instance this particular runaway is after holding a high pitch for a few seconds, it's difficult after the fact to figure .. "What's it doing now ?" tm


See omega95's fbw.nas file: https://gitorious.org/airbus-aircraft/a ... al/fbw.nas

In line 97, you can find the properties he's using: https://gitorious.org/airbus-aircraft/a ... nas#line97

So, you can simply register a listener for the properties used there (using the Nasal console or by appending some code to the fbw.nas file) and use a simple print callback with cmdarg() (untested code):
  • /systems/condition
  • /fbw/active-law
  • /fbw/flight-phase

Code: Select all
 var properties = ['/systems/condition"','/fbw/flight-phase','/fbw/active-law',];
 var on_change = func print ( 'FBW:', cmdarg().getPath(),' is now:', cmdarg().getValue() );
 foreach(var p; properties)
  setlistener(property:p, function:on_change, startup:0,runtime:0);
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby bicyus » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:58 pm

Well let it speak clear,

I know i'm not the best
I know this is my first plane
I know this is a community and not something close
I perfectly know people can do better than i do

BUT sorry

I've been working JUST on this plane for last 6 months!
I've been working ALONE with no help for develop it, even if i asked different people.
I've not created but I've taken when it was an addon for the A320-family, and was fully buggy.
I started to submit Bugfixes to the time head developer.
There wasn't even a public git repository for it.

Now
I'm glad to see you guys coming to develop it, i appreciate it.

But
I'm upset! upset that the hundreds of hours i've spent on this single A/C, seems sometimes to pass by.
Upset, coz i get in the so called titans war! when it never ment to happen
Upset, coz some other say, we may need an administrator for this project...

WHAT THE FUCCKING HELL!!

if this go this way, i quit. (and i'm not speaking about taking one branch or another)

By the way, if some one doubt it... i know how to work on team, i do it every day on my work.
and I don't like the "Credit-ittis"

This is what i feel. and i think i'm taking some vacations on FG.
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby Hooray » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:14 am

I am not sure who you are responding to. But just in case it's me: I only meant to suggest that we should avoid duplicate/wasted work whenever possible, i.e. by seeing how the existing work (including different approaches and solutions) can be combined, reused and generalized. I don't think anybody was suggesting that ANY work should be completely disregarded. I can perfectly understand that you hate that idea and that it makes you feel upset.
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby awexome » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:25 am

Hi,

relax bicyus. ... I think you have misunderstood the atmosphere. Theres a little pressure and its 'electric' and fun. People are all enjoying working on this plane. You can imagine the comedic chaos it would have been if we were all in a large physical workshop.

This is all part of the innovative developer experience ... just smile, laugh and enjoy it. I believe that there is no problem beyond the team. Whatever it is, it will be solved. It is just another crossing point. Most likely there is already a solution nearby, we are all getting close.

And I personally apologize if my little joke had been misinterpreted ... however, I am new around here, in learning mode and sometimes I miscakenly :wink: take a wrong step. But I consider all to be good friends despite the little teasing. By admintrator, I was humbly volunteering to take on any excess work, like making tea and serving bizkitz :) It is an exciting project and there has been much development. Naturally, it becomes more fun as it progresses. And it is progressing.

By the way, I have not been asked, in anyway whatsoever, to provide help in any form, not even to make tea and bizkitz :wink:

Now, then, where did i put that philips screw driver ...


awexome :)
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby omega95 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:01 am

Whoa! What just happened? :|

Jon, seriously.. are you alright?

bicyus wrote in Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:58 pm:Upset, coz i get in the so called titans war! when it never ment to happen


A Titan War? How is this a war at all? (Oh and btw, I heard the 'Wrath of the Titans' released soon :wink: )

bicyus wrote in Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:58 pm:I've been working JUST on this plane for last 6 months!
I've been working ALONE with no help for develop it, even if i asked different people.
I've not created but I've taken when it was an addon for the A320-family, and was fully buggy.
I started to submit Bugfixes to the time head developer.
There wasn't even a public git repository for it.


If that means you'd like to work on this airplane alone, I don't mind at all... I'd just leave you alone and put my work onto the A330. :?

Please do post again soon.
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby bicyus » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:26 am

Sorry i may have gone a bit mad... :oops:

But my whole point, was to down duplicate work!

I don't like to start a work (me and other), and eventualy to have a duplicated branch for the same part. not even to inprove it, just a full new implementation. so, what's the point?

For a FBW there was even one open thread on Forum just for that, and now are TWO! now again, what's the point?

Seriously i don't have problems in Omega95's implementation been the one going to master branch. If it is a better approach thats ok! ;-)

but why go that way, over the developen plan? (there already was Develop branch full of differents approach on FBW. if i knew someone is going to take kare of that, i wouln't have done any! it a waist of time! so, what's the point?

i spoke with Omega95, and ask if i was going to do the new cocpit, he wanted to do it, and i say that was great, and i was impatiently waiting his good work. so knowing that, i would not take blender and start designing some new cockpit. some other is on that job.
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby bicyus » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:38 am

omega95 wrote in Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:01 am:Whoa! What just happened? :|

Jon, seriously.. are you alright?

If that means you'd like to work on this airplane alone, I don't mind at all... I'd just leave you alone and put my work onto the A330. :?

Please do post again soon.


;-) i'm right Narendran, and no, i don't want to work alone, thats boring ;-) and your work are brilliant.

But please, lets go to do this with some order. i've may have see to mach movement too fast....

let's try to not overdo the work.

SO:

Should we do a new Wiki page for A320neo develop, and leave the actual as information? something like wiki.flightgear.org/Airbus_A320neo_Develop

Whould be great if we start pulling there a TODO list, the name of pople interested in colaborating and his auto-assigned job. what do you think about it?

on FBW part, update your branch with the las FDM from Airbus-fbw branch. it has the ability to reach negative G loads, wich previous version, didn't.

Once again sorry, :roll:
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby awexome » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:52 am

Hi,

I second the idea of a TO DO list on a wiki. I do the tea and bizkitz :wink: By the way I have been looking at all the interesting nas code and would be recommending some optimization. Nothing major, just cleaner and smar7er code.

Bicyus, no apologies needed. We are all human and have our dark days :)

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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby omega95 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 am

Cool then, now that everyone's calm, what's the next step atm?
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby bicyus » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:30 am

omega95 wrote in Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 am:Cool then, now that everyone's calm, what's the next step atm?


Maybe ToDo List at wiki.flightgear.org/Airbus_A320neo_Develop? and start from there asigning jobs

FG 2.8.0 release is at 130 days form now, i think is enough time to do a very good work here! and even other 'BUSes

Bed time for me 4:30 am :shock:
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby omega95 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:05 am

Image

In this and many other pictures, the cockpit base color is sorta blue-grey (more to the grey end) rather than the blue used in hte current A320 cockpits... Should we keep hte old colors or can I extract colors from the picture above? :)

polly wrote in Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:05 pm:Don't worry, omega95, your PID's are not escaping PID-OScope's cruel gaze ..


The FBW is supposed to keep it in limits but if something happens and it gets into an "unusual attitude", the flight control system shifts to the ABNORMAL ALTERNATE LAW where the pitch control shifts to ALTERNATE LAW and roll/bank control shifts to DIRECT LAW. Basically, if it does get into an unusual attitude, you'd supposed to turn it out of it.

Source : http://www.airbusdriver.net/airbus_fltlaws.htm
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby omega95 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:31 am

Image

Image

Image

Still have to texture the switches/knobs/buttons and ofcourse the glow-in-the-dark (?) text is left... I'll do that after lunch. :wink:

I won't be texturing the pedestal yet, as I'd have to model all the knobs and switches first.

Annd as for the model complexity, Ac3D gives 24508 vertices and 39891 surfaces (is it weird that there're more surfaces than vertices, or does Ac3d count both sides? But still, is it too much? The 787-8 has more but that hasn't really had much of a frame-rate impact for me. :|

Cheers, as for the Airbus-fbw branch, I can't get that fbw to work properly... the surfaces keep bouncin' aorund. Jon, can you give me a brief idea of what's there? :P

EDIT:
Image
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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby scotth1 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:42 am

Just a small note, one of the best features of GIT is that you can create many branches easily. It is intended to try out new bits of code, and you don't have to push all branches to the origin repository, you can play with the branch on your local repository if you don't think it will go far.

However all this needs communication between the team members and it looks like you have sorted yourselves out and created a TODO list on the wiki.

So it's perfectly fine (from the GIT concept) to have two different branches for different implementations of a FBW, you can then see the different approaches each developer takes, and works out what works best...

The merging however can be more interesting, though I believe GIT can handle what are called octopus merges, never tried it, I'm sure it will hurt someone's head soon..

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Re: Airbus A320neo (A319,A320,A321)

Postby bicyus » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:28 am

omega95 wrote in Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:31 am:Annd as for the model complexity, Ac3D gives 24508 vertices and 39891 surfaces (is it weird that there're more surfaces than vertices, or does Ac3d count both sides? But still, is it too much? The 787-8 has more but that hasn't really had much of a frame-rate impact for me. :|

Cheers, as for the Airbus-fbw branch, I can't get that fbw to work properly... the surfaces keep bouncin' aorund. Jon, can you give me a brief idea of what's there? :P


Omega, :shock: WOW. looking great! i think new texture cool!

Airbus-fbw Branch:

Actual PIDs are messed up. it does not work ATM. This is due to what i think was necessary update to FDM. Limited rate of change for flight surfaces was added, so actual PID are not tunned for real FDM. Also i tested with some negative alpha values, so the plane could reach negative G loads.

all fbw system (xml and nasal) is inside Systems/fbw/Airbus-fbw.xxx. it work on 2 PIDs, active and stable, for pitch and roll.

instead of letting the PID compare Actual G-LOAD and desired G-load, it computes necessary Pitch_rate for the actual speed. i thought it may me more stable on neutral area of the joystick, if we finnaly don't use the "Stable PIDs".

I have think right now, that maybe, instead having separate Stability PID on joystick values smaller than 0.01 and -0.01, we could simple clip joystick value to 0 in this conditions, outputting a 0 rate of change to the ACTIVE PID, making stable flightpath.

;-)
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