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Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby islandmonkey » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:49 pm

I see some good stuff going on here.

Nice job!
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby SP LEC » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 pm

Bjoern wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:41 pm:SP-LEC, 07-BUT, are both of your branches based on the GIT versions of the CRJs (from the mapserver)?

Hi, correct.
Best regards
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Reason: No useless quoting please.
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby 07-BUT » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:33 pm

Bjoern wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:41 pm:SP-LEC, 07-BUT, are both of your branches based on the GIT versions of the CRJs (from the mapserver)?


Mine is based on http://gitorious.org/fg-skyops-aircraft/crj700-family. Does a more recent version exist ?

SP-LEC, I quickly implemented your autopilot disconnect function with the "correct" sound (you can hear it anywhere on YouTube) and assigned crtl-d to the task.

And there is a new help/checklist also.

Always the same link https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7679353/tmp/CR ... %20MOD.zip.
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby islandmonkey » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:49 pm

07-BUT, I believe you have missed one big thing.

The aircraft folder now measures just under a weighty 200MB!

That near to a 1/4 of the size of FlightGear.
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby 07-BUT » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:20 pm

islandmonkey wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:49 pm:The aircraft folder now measures just under a weighty 200MB!


I know, uncompressed, indeed (but "just" 40 Mo zipped). This is nearly the same size as the author's original (~150 Mo) + 50 Mo of liveries (Incl. original liveries + Air Nostrum "Comunitat Valenciana", SAS "Maria Viking", Estonian Air, and the Challenger one I can't remove because it's the only one), Challenger interior, new sounds, new images, ... Except removing (and not forget to) the liveries available on http://liveries.flightgear.org/ I don't have any other solutions to lower the weight.
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby SP LEC » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:40 pm

islandmonkey wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:49 pm:07-BUT, I believe you have missed one big thing.

The aircraft folder now measures just under a weighty 200MB!

That near to a 1/4 of the size of FlightGear.


There are about 10 models in the package - different fuselage, different interiors and etc. The package shouldn'd measure 10MB :wink:


07-BUT - I will implement Your changes to vesrion of plane I work, except " Custom keymap to make the plane playable with Apple keyboards (w/o numpad + laptops)" - how should I add it into the package??

* Introduction of the Challenger 870 Corporate Shuttle (CL-600-2C10), in fact the executive version of the 700
* Wingtips trails (Except for de 1000) - I need explanation
* Exhaust smoke during TO (Except for de 1000) - I should do this
* Tire smoke/Rain sprays (Except for de 1000) - I should do this
* Contrail above 24010 (Except for de 1000) - I should do this
* Landing gear and vibrations sounds while touchdown - I will do it
* Landing gear and vibrations sounds while rolling - I will do it
* 80 KT + V1 + VR announcements (should be models related) - done yet
* 900ER Air Nostrum and SAS Scandinavian Airlines included - I will do it
* Challenger 870 CS "Square" included - I will do it

If I had any problems in implementation I will let You know and ask for help
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby 07-BUT » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:11 pm

SP LEC wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:40 pm:
islandmonkey wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:49 pm:07-BUT, I believe you have missed one big thing.

The aircraft folder now measures just under a weighty 200MB!

That near to a 1/4 of the size of FlightGear.


There are about 10 models in the package - different fuselage, different interiors and etc. The package shouldn'd measure 10MB :wink:

=> Indeed.

07-BUT I will implement Your changes to vesrion of plane I work

=> Is it very pragmatic to maintain 2 or 3 concurrent versions ?

Custom keymap to make the plane playable with Apple keyboards (w/o numpad + laptops)" - how should I add it into the package??

=> Replace your CRJ700-keybindings.xml by mine in the /CRJ700-family/Systems folder.
Basically, it was intended to have an ergonomic config (try fn-backspace on a Mac w/o releasing your input device during landing) on a Mac but it also works on Windows, Linux, ... I tweak all the planes to match my behavior.

* Introduction of the Challenger 870 Corporate Shuttle (CL-600-2C10), in fact the executive version of the 700
* Wingtips trails (Except for de 1000) - I need explanation
=> http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Add_co ... ion_trails
* Exhaust smoke during TO (Except for de 1000) - I should do this
=> I plan to have a blur effect during taxi, cruise under 24010 and landing but my test are not convincing for now
* Tire smoke/Rain sprays (Except for de 1000) - I should do this
=> It's hazardous for now, I need help from a more advanced dev (see my comment in the changelog)
* Contrail above 24010 (Except for de 1000) - I should do this
* Landing gear and vibrations sounds while touchdown - I will do it
* Landing gear and vibrations sounds while rolling - I will do it
* 80 KT + V1 + VR announcements (should be models related) - done yet
=> For me, it's a "generic" announcement, the same for all models
* 900ER Air Nostrum and SAS Scandinavian Airlines included - I will do it
* Challenger 870 CS "Square" included - I will do it

If I had any problems in implementation I will let You know and ask for help
=> I'm FAR for being an expert, I just try by myself and learn, it's just fun to improve that good aircraft
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby awexome » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:24 pm

Hi All,

I am finding this jet more and more interesting. I hope the instruments and FDM continue to improve.
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I inspire, think, and seek the skies ------- mijiny <aka awexome[2138]>
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby SP LEC » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:08 pm

07-BUT wrote in Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:11 pm:
=> Is it very pragmatic to maintain 2 or 3 concurrent versions ?

=> I'm FAR for being an expert, I just try by myself and learn, it's just fun to improve that good aircraft


Hi - I've implemented most of Your changes - now I.m working on impoving contrails and so on - ex I shared contrails to every engine (independent)

I have proposal - I will upload my latest vesrion inlude every (or most i I had some problems wit something) on monday (I have totaly shity Internet connection at home to upload), and we can share our work. My next steps are: flightdeck improvements and systems.

According to second point, my firs plame I have improved is 777-300 by SP-WKA - I made there most of 3d graphic improvements od binding - before I didn't know anything about 3d modelling and XML's :wink:
To more dificult things I will ask SP-WKA - he is very good in IT (during IT studdies) - and he will hel after exam-session.

So - on moday I will upload latest version from my work, and give You an info.
Best regards
Leszek SP-LEC
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby Bjoern » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:44 pm

Maybe re-saving the textures with higher compression helps with filesize.

One could offer a "high-res" pack for those wanting...well, high res textures.
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby SP LEC » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:35 am

Bjoern wrote in Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:44 pm:Maybe re-saving the textures with higher compression helps with filesize.

One could offer a "high-res" pack for those wanting...well, high res textures.


Hi.I will use hi-res textures - for sure - but there are two possibilities to use it - changind format to dds or replacing names in xxxx.ac files. Second solution a lot of work; for first solution I haven't good software to change the format.

Have anybody free good soft to format files to dds for WIN7 - 64bit?

According to the filesize - I have compressed full pack use 7zip, an the package measure about 35Mb.

Best regards
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby Gijs » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:57 am

To change lots of textures in an .ac file, simply open the file in your favourite source code editor (Notepad++ is a nice (free) one for Window) and Ctrl-F replace all the .png by .dds (or whatever you need).
Textures can be converted to DDS with the free NVIDIA tools, from: http://developer.nvidia.com/gpu-acceler ... ompression

But agree on the compressing of textures. For example the splash screen CHALLENGER-870-CS-splash.png (resolutions should be a power of 2 btw, so 512*512 or 1024*1024 instead of 800*800), is now 2.5 MB. Turning up the compression level you can get it just under 0.4 MB. And that doesn't downgrade the quality (noticeably)...
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby radi » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:29 am

On Linux, there is optipng and pngcrush that may reduce png file size without loss of quality. There might be something similar for Windows.
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby i4dnf » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:54 am

PNG compression is, by design, lossless compression (i.e. it will preserve image quality no matter what level of compression is used). optipng and pngcrush alter the images to get better compression by removing small features, colour variations and so on; they do this in a "smart" way to try and preserve the general image appearance, but you might find that you lose some subtle details that way.

PNG compression ratio affects runtime decompression times; this might be unnoticeable on small files, but it becomes an issue with large textures (>=1024x1024), so what you gain in disk space, you lose at load time, where it is even more noticeable, and where coupled with the other things going on with that texture ("on the fly" mipmap creation) is the main cause for the well known model loading stutters/freezes.

DDS compression, while being a lossy format (image quality degrades), overcomes most of the performance issues, by having the mipmaps pregenerated, and by remaining compressed in video memory. Trouble is though, thet the s3tc patents currently prevent opensource drivers from supporting this format, even if the underlying hardware supports it. Also some Linux distros seem to disable DDS support in OSG altogether.

My advice for those using png textures would be to use a medium to low compression ratio (diskspace is not so much of an issue these days, and packing the files for distribution compresses them as far as possible), so that you get a balanced minimal hit from the disk read/decompression stage. The mipmap generation will still cause freezes, the higher the texture resolution the longer the freezes, as well as the actual size the decompressed images have in video memory which will cause stutters as other stuff needs to be constantly swapped in and out of video ram in order to accomodate your highres textures.

As an estimate of video memory usage for texture size:
1024x1024 will require at least 6MiB (4MiB for the texture * 1.5 to accomodate for mipmaps) -- compared to ~1MiB for DDS dxt3 or dxt5
2048x2048 will require at least 24MiB (16MiB for the texture * 1.5 to accomodate for mipmaps) -- compared to ~4MiB for DDS dxt3 or dxt5
4096x4096 will require at least 96MiB (64MiB for the texture * 1.5 to accomodate for mipmaps) -- compared to ~22MiB for DDS dxt3 or dxt5

The values quoted above for DDS are even lower -down to 1/2- if using dxt1.
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Re: Bombardier CRJ700 series/CRJ900 replacement

Postby 07-BUT » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:26 pm

Regarding you comments :

Latest changelog
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7679353/tmp/CHANGELOG.txt
Latest package
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7679353/tmp/CR ... %20MOD.zip

SP-LEC, I did not implement all your flightdeck mods because of some details (black blur around text on the pedestal, the yoke staving in the panel, ...)
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