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Trunk Aircraft

Postby dilbert » Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:08 am

I'm running FG 2020.3.11 ( I rechecked a moment ago and it's still the current Source Forge release)
It uploads aircraft from the org.flightgear.fgaddon.stable_2020.
Is it correct that Trunk aircraft modified in 2021 are not uploaded by FG 2020.3.11?
And if not, in what Windows FG release will they upload from the regular FG "hangar" in normal fashion :?:
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby Isaak » Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:34 am

You can add the Trunk hangar in the Gui by adding this catalog in the Addons tab: http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/f ... atalog.xml

The trunk aircraft are ported to stable at the moment a new LTS version is released (this was 2020.3.1 last year, that received some bugfixes leading up to 2020.3.11). Aircraft authors are encouraged to port stable bugfixes to the active release branch, but to keep new development in Trunk to minimise the chance of committing breaking changes to the stable branche. This means that the current FGaddon Trunk will probably be merged to FGAddon Stable when a new LTS version is released, probably next year. If you want to have your hands on the latest developments, add trunk to your personal FG copy, but be aware that most developers are developing against the most recent development version of FG and will not necessary provide backwards compatibility, so some aircraft might not function as expected on your FG Version.
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby dilbert » Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:35 pm

Thank you Isaak for your response and explanation.

The source of my confusion was an understanding that a 2021 Trunk version of a plane had been checked for compatibility with 2020.4 and lacked any problems;
so I erroneously assumed it might have made it to the 2020_stable.

Is the process for updating the addon stable automatic based on Version number? And if so, when and by whom is it assigned?

The thought that 2021 updates to the trunk might eventually be reflected in FG 2020.4, provided 2020.4 is released in 2021, or thereafter, is more than a little confusing.

Also, I think it unfortunate that 2021 Trunk updates might not be reflected in the addon hangar stable and available to ordinary users until they have obtained a 2022 FG release. Ouch!

Nevertheless, thanks again for the explanation and Kind Regards
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby merspieler » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:05 pm

Is the process for updating the addon stable automatic based on Version number? And if so, when and by whom is it assigned?


It isn't automated. The individual developers of the planes are in charge of updating FGAddon. If they only update trunk or also support 2020.3 is up to them.

The thought that 2021 updates to the trunk might eventually be reflected in FG 2020.4, provided 2020.4 is released in 2021, or thereafter, is more than a little confusing.


2020.4 won't be a release, it's the developement version (also called "next"). Shortly before the new release will be cut, the "next" version will be updated and the release will be cut. After the stable release, it will obtain the next minor version number (ie. if the next major release will be 2022.3, next will become 2022.4)
Around the same time, the release is cut, the trunk will be forked to (probably) 2022_stable.
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby dilbert » Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:43 pm

Thanks merspieler for the explanation, which gives me a much better understanding of the updating process.
Also for your kind words.
Best Regards :)
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby helijah » Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:54 pm

Hello

I want to clarify, that unfortunately, the Trunk repository cannot be used on a stable version 2020.3.0 because in the catalog.xml file there are the following limitations :

<version n="2">2020.4.*</version>
<version n="3">2021.*</version>
<id>org.flightgear.fgaddon.trunk</id>


And personally I wouldn't allow myself to add a row for 2020.3.0. But if a repository manager wants to do it, it would be helpful to all users of the Stable version :)

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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:49 pm

the thing is that trunk is for development... when a new FG release happens, trunk is snapshotted to a versioned craft repo which the release then has access to... if the release, especially the LTS, were allowed access to trunk, then it would be trying to use craft that may be using new, experimental, and not fully tested features that the release simply doesn't know about of have access to... that's not a GoodThing<tm>... especially for a Long Term Support release...
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby dilbert » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:37 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:49 pm:the thing is that trunk is for development... when a new FG release happens, trunk is snapshotted to a versioned craft repo which the release then has access to... if the release, especially the LTS, were allowed access to trunk, then it would be trying to use craft that may be using new, experimental, and not fully tested features that the release simply doesn't know about of have access to... that's not a GoodThing<tm>... especially for a Long Term Support release...


By whom is it snapshotted :?: And how does the initiator of the snapshot know which planes in the Trunk are ok to release, as opposed to those still experimental? And will planes modified since
2020 not make it into FGaddon until sometime in 2022 :?: More than a little confusing to the average user. :(
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby merspieler » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:43 pm

By whom is it snapshotted :?:

Core devs... James iirc...

And how does the initiator of the snapshot know which planes in the Trunk are ok to release, as opposed to those still experimental?

All will go... and then there's testing and devs make sure it works with that version.

And will planes modified since 2020 not make it into FGaddon until sometime in 2022 :?:

As I said, it's up to the aircraft dev, if they do add it to 2020, if that's possible
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby dilbert » Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:36 pm

merspieler wrote in Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:43 pm:By whom is it snapshotted :?:

Core devs... James iirc...

And how does the initiator of the snapshot know which planes in the Trunk are ok to release, as opposed to those still experimental?

All will go... and then there's testing and devs make sure it works with that version.

And will planes modified since 2020 not make it into FGaddon until sometime in 2022 :?:

As I said, it's up to the aircraft dev, if they do add it to 2020, if that's possible


I understand development reviewing what's in the Trunk before approving it for FGaddon in the next release. I don't understand why it can't be reviewed and included in the current stable release, i.e. 2020.3.11., if workable in 2020.3.11. :?
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby dilbert » Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:39 pm

helijah wrote in Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:54 pm:Hello

I want to clarify, that unfortunately, the Trunk repository cannot be used on a stable version 2020.3.0 because in the catalog.xml file there are the following limitations :

<version n="2">2020.4.*</version>
<version n="3">2021.*</version>
<id>org.flightgear.fgaddon.trunk</id>


And personally I wouldn't allow myself to add a row for 2020.3.0. But if a repository manager wants to do it, it would be helpful to all users of the Stable version :)

Regards Emmanuel


Amen
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:22 pm

dilbert wrote in Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:36 pm:I don't understand why it can't be reviewed and included in the current stable release, i.e. 2020.3.11., if workable in 2020.3.11. :?

simple... because there's no one to do it...
the snapshotting is automated and kicked off via script... it is up to the craft devs to be sure their craft is ready before the snapshot or they may have to scramble to fix things later...
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"Why not?" said Gurder.
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby merspieler » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:02 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:22 pm:simple... because there's no one to do it...


Exactly... as I've said before, it's up to the ac devs... and if they don't, no one else does.
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby dilbert » Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:19 am

Thank you Merspieler.
It's clear that as an organization FlightGear must preserve its open source integrity.
It's clear that all involved have an individual responsibility in that regard.
Also, it's apparent that code elements that have already been accepted without legal complaint to the current, official repository might continue to be acceptable, as a practical matter.
So a "script" could decide to retain aircraft versions accepted in previous FG releases, which would narrow the acceptance issue down to aircraft having had more recent development.
The crux of my question is: once the script determines which aircraft were not already accepted, who is the final arbiter responsible for adding aircraft with new development to the official repository?
Thanks again for your kind patience and responses.
Kind Regards
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Re: Trunk Aircraft

Postby merspieler » Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:28 pm

dilbert wrote in Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:19 am:The crux of my question is: once the script determines which aircraft were not already accepted, who is the final arbiter responsible for adding aircraft with new development to the official repository?


If there were such a script that checks compatibility (which would on its on be a ton of work), it would probably be down to the dev of that script.

Also note, that such a script is hard to write.
You need to find a way to determen compatibility.
For nasal, you could look at the function calls but that can give falls negatives... for example the A320 has added the anisotropic filtering to canvases which is only available in next.
But it's written in a way so that it will only call it, if FG is new enough.
So you'd need to do a full code analysis to treat this right.

Just one, rather simple example of why this will be tricky.

In the end, it doesn't worth the time to write such a script and rather spend time developing something productive.

After all, users still have the choice to either run stable LTS releases or go for the nightlies (with all the pros and cons)
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