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DHC-6 Twin Otter development

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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby SurferTim » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:15 pm

@WoodSTokk:
I'm glad to hear the OSG text deal may be solved in 2020.4.0. I'll give it a try when I get a chance.

When the Compositor has been around for a while, I'll take a look. I'm just a bit tired of playing Whack-A-Mole with the landing lights. First Rembrandt (best landing lights so far), then ALS (won't illuminate anything but pavement), and now this Compositor stuff. Does it light up more than just pavement?

Has anybody heard from Syd Adams? Not a response have I seen from him. Maybe I don't recognize his user name? I think he did a great job on both the Citation-X and the Twin Otter compared to other aircraft I've flown. That is why I fly them.

BTW, I'm not complaining, just pointing out faulty things that could be improved. Some not mentioned here I have already corrected, like the ALS landing lights, intake deflectors and engine/prop sound.
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby V12 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:55 am

Nice to hear the problem was resolved. The solution took an incredible 2 years.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby Octal450 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:30 am

Thats a fault of the control loops of the autopilot

More specifically its the fault of no synchrony modelling and an overtuned control loop so the system engages with bullshit value then tries to compensate but over-compensates by winding too far or such and then goes back etc...

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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby SurferTim » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:26 pm

I'll have to wait for FG2020.4.0 to make its way into the download_and_compile.sh script for Debian/Ubuntu. It is currently 2020.3.10, and it has the same OSG text problem. :(

Edit: I see the parameters for the 2020.3.10 script needs a compositor option. Is that required to try out the Compositor lights in FG2020.4.0? Or will the Compositor be included in the standard build?
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby benih » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:57 pm

SurferTim wrote in Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:26 pm:I'll have to wait for FG2020.4.0 to make its way into the download_and_compile.sh script for Debian/Ubuntu. It is currently 2020.3.10, and it has the same OSG text problem. :(


Please check your git branch: some time ago mine went to 'master' for unnknown reasons, and i fixed it by checking out (and pulling) 'next' manually again.
the next branch script works and definitely compiles 2020.4 with the fix applied.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby WoodSTokk » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:13 pm

On Debian you must also compile the OSG library, because Debian is shipping version 3.4.1.
FG 2020.4 need OSG 3.6.0 and its in the FG repo.
So compile it with:
Code: Select all
./download_and_compile.sh <your_options> OSG DATA SIMGEAR FGFS
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:20 pm

V12 wrote in Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:55 am:Nice to hear the problem was resolved. The solution took an incredible 2 years.

this is because until now, there was no one with the necessary understanding or capability to make the proper fix...
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"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby WoodSTokk » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:27 pm

SurferTim wrote in Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:15 pm:@WoodSTokk:
First Rembrandt (best landing lights so far), then ALS (won't illuminate anything but pavement), and now this Compositor stuff. Does it light up more than just pavement?


Rembrandt and ALS exist since many years side by side.
New is only the Compositor and will be the standard starting with 2020.4.
Yes, the Compositor lights illuminate all faces.
Drawback is, that it doesn't cast shadow. But normally there are less or no objects around a runway, so its not really interfering.
You achieve the best result with Compositor lights (for illumination) and procedural lights (for the corona around the lights).
Compositor lights are expensive, so you should use it in exterior cases.
For interior lights use the light map as before.

PS: on the Citation II i also use Compositor lights in the cockpit because i have never backed a light map.
And secondly a light map is mapped against the models. If i change something in the cockpit, i must back the light map again.
Therefor i use Compositor until i'm happy with the model.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby SurferTim » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:23 pm

Got FG2020.4.0 installed.
YAY! The Garmin GPS is fixed!
BOO! The up-until-now reliable multi-display configuration file crashes my computer. Am I back to one display?
:(
Edit: Got the multi-display working.
But with 2020.4.0, there is no longer a flight compartment light as in earlier versions.
No longer a selection for Rembrandt or ALS in the Settings folder.
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:08 pm

SurferTim wrote in Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:23 pm:No longer a selection for Rembrandt or ALS in the Settings folder.

we've been saying this for at least a year since word about the compositor pipeline being implemented and placed in next for usage ;)

you can select "default" or "ALS" for compositor... soon-ish you can select "HDR" (IIUC)...
"default" is the basic line... used mainly by lower end systems...
"ALS" runs through the ALS route...
"HDR" will run through the HDR path... again, IIUC... some HDR is already available but it is not fit for use, yet...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby SurferTim » Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:28 pm

I tried the official hangar version Twin Otter, and it has a a bit of a problem.
With the props in high speed and the torque at 20psi, it rolls backwards on even a slight incline.
The sound isn't right either. The props are sound sync with the N1 (compressor section).

I'm going to try to steal your compartment light. It does work on your version.

Thanks!
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
My other aircraft is a Citation-X https://github.com/SurferTim/CitationX
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby WoodSTokk » Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:39 pm

Do you have a blend file of the aircraft?
If i have time, i will update the exterior lights to Compositor.
That includes landing lights, taxi lights, position (nav) lights, strobes and rotating beacon.
If you want the beacon as old rotating style or new blinking light?
Have the DHC6 other lights externally?
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby SurferTim » Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:50 pm

@WoodSTokk: Thanks for volunteering! Only if you have the time...

I don't have a blender file for it yet. I'll check if I can convert one. I have Blender set to import/export ac files.

No hurry on that. The ALS landing lights appear to be working ok (not the best) on 2020.4.0.

BTW, is the compositor activated by default? I did not use the "--compositor" parameter when I compiled FG. Should I have?
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
My other aircraft is a Citation-X https://github.com/SurferTim/CitationX
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:09 pm

Yes, Compositor is always on in 2020.4. It's not a set of shaders like ALS, but in fact a replacement of the rendering pipeline.

I believe the lightspots will still work correctly (forwards compatiable) but the Compositor lights only work on 2020.4 (not backwards compatiable).
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Re: DHC-6 Twin Otter development

Postby WoodSTokk » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:39 am

No problem, i can also convert it. I use Blender 2.79.
I need it only to get the right coordinates to position the lights correctly.
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