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A320-family development

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Re: A320-family development

Postby hayden2000 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:22 pm

Yep, you are absolutely right on the PFD, it should have decimals below 10nm. I'll add that to my to do list. Lots of improvements coming to the PFD :)

I'd definitely prefer to use the X-Plane airways if possible. Of note, I believe that file is available even in the demo, so anyone could add it themselves.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:28 am

Merspieler, It's under full copyright as I recall, as it is commercial database owned by Navigraph.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby daweed » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:46 am

Hello Lego,

a and b...

Well supporting XP airways file for thoose who own a copy of XP to use them in FG, but allowing to record airways should be good too :)
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Re: A320-family development

Postby merspieler » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:01 pm

You're right, navigraph... but actually it's as well pretty outdated. AIRAC 1708

Someone should go to navigraph and ask, if we could include a bit newer version of that stuff with fg... for lnm it worked.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby merspieler » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:30 pm

@lego: what is supposed to work already on the FMGC branch? I'm doing a test flight right now but before I raise a list of issues, I want to verify, if these things are already supposed to work.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby V12 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:01 pm

I have Navigraph subscription for FMS data only (no maps), I used it with FG, worked perfectly with Route Manager. It will be very nice to leave this concept as is and not copy that data to aircraft folder.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:02 pm

What should work:
- all four types of LAT REV page spawn when clicking respective waypoint
- ability to enter waypoints on the FPLN page
- entering SID and STAR and IAP procedures
- inputting a route using LAT REV NEXT WPT functionality
- clearing and sequencing waypoints, including addition / removal of discontinuities

What does not yet work:
- clearing waypoints whenever FROM / TO are the same (very bizarre :?:)
- entering transitions
- airways, alternate routes / diversion, direct to (missing features)
- navigation display temporary flightplan

What I might have forgotten to do is to merge the code for deleting / inserting waypoints that checks intermediate waypoints if you try to enter an existing waypoint as NEXT WPT -- as far as I recall it works for FPLN but not for LAT REV




@V12, sorry, you can't use the route manager any more.

I didn't suggest that you would have to do that - but I think it would be nice to be able to add extra airways that are not in the navigation database ;)
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Bjoern » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:30 pm

Regarding the AIRAC: If nobody already did so, I could ask LittleNavMap's developer what deal he struck with Navigraph to get permission to include a dataset.


- Edit:
Just checked. LNM's cycle is 1801, so hardly newer than X-Plane's 1708 one. Might be best to stick to what XP has to offer before jumping through hoops with Navigraph.

By the way: If the license file (GPLv2) included in "X-Plane 11/Resources/default data/ReadMe Notes/" applies to the entire dataset, there might even be a chance to get this cycle included by default. But this requires clarification by Laminar Research.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby merspieler » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:08 pm

lego: then it seems all good so far except that NAV mode won't engage. it can be armed tho

Bjoern: if you look at the head of the files, it clearly states: `Copyright (c) 2018 Navigraph, Datasource Jeppesen`
So it doesn't matter, if you take the ones from XP or navigraph directly... you allways have to deal with navigraph.

i think i won't hurt to get in touch with alex and find you, how he convinced navigraph
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Bjoern » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:24 pm

merspieler wrote in Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:08 pm:Bjoern: if you look at the head of the files, it clearly states: `Copyright (c) 2018 Navigraph, Datasource Jeppesen`
So it doesn't matter, if you take the ones from XP or navigraph directly... you allways have to deal with navigraph.


Ah, I did not look into the files themselves. This makes it crystal clear. Thanks.

i think i won't hurt to get in touch with alex and find you, how he convinced navigraph


I've sent him a message.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:48 am

Unfortunately the navdata cannot be updated as the files will then not match the scenery. There wouldn't be a problem to update them locally for individual users if they purchase a licensed copy or receive an older copy free of charge but until the world scenery is updated to the matching airport positions it wouldn't be possible to have it updated in FGDATA.


What I'm suggesting however is that the A320 will support whatever navdata is in FGDATA. Then, by addition of custom navdata files (which use the same .dat format as X-Plane) people can either load their own waypoints / airways or load ones that they purchase.



As a matter of fact doesn't FlightGear already have support for custom apt.dat files - is there such support already for custom fix.dat / nav.dat files?
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Re: A320-family development

Postby merspieler » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:42 am

Actually, if you think about it, supporting other data isn't that bad... In rl you have 2 nav databases at the same time (you can switch between them on the DATA page)
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Re: A320-family development

Postby V12 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:38 pm

lego :
If You put navdata into aircraft folder, only that aircraft can use them. If You leave navdata in FGDATA, all aircrafts can use them, no matter via route manager or custom MCDU. This is reason of my statement "leave it as it is".
And about compatibility of the fresh AIRAC vs old scenery data in FG - Yes, this is real problem, I found not working procedures for some airports, for example NZQN, LIPB and some other.

I found interesting web page with navaids updates for FSX / P3D - https://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html. I'm using this updates in conjunction with Navigraph's FMS data, it worked perfectly with PMDG and probably FSLabs Buses too. Fileformat is bgl, but I hope it should be decompiled and transcoded for FG, if licence allow it.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:24 pm

V12 wrote in Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:38 pm:And about compatibility of the fresh AIRAC vs old scenery data in FG - Yes, this is real problem, I found not working procedures for some airports, for example NZQN, LIPB and some other.


Yes. That real problem therefore totally inhibits updating navdata in FGDATA -- except -- where scenery has been updated to match it, such as in the Carribean.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Bjoern » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:07 pm

Got a response from Alex.

He just wrote an e-mail to the Navigraph support and there were no special conditions or a contract. Apparently, the opportunity for selling updated data to LNM users was convincing enough for them.
The only thing Alex had to do was writing a compiler for the data to bring it into LNM's file format. Navigraph normally does this, but LNM's database format apparently was too complex for them.

He said that a carefully worded request for an older AIRAC shouldn't be a problem.

So it wouldn't hurt to ask. However, licensing or distribution might pose an issue as the data would have be GPL to be included for distribution with FG or any aircraft using it.



V12 wrote in Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:38 pm:I found interesting web page with navaids updates for FSX / P3D - https://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html. I'm using this updates in conjunction with Navigraph's FMS data, it worked perfectly with PMDG and probably FSLabs Buses too. Fileformat is bgl, but I hope it should be decompiled and transcoded for FG, if licence allow it.


Note that these datasets are not complete. Some regions may lack airway data while others lack ILS data.
The licensing terms seem to be pretty liberal as stated in chapter 8 here: https://www.aero.sors.fr/documentation/ ... Update.pdf
Decompiling the BGL files (or asking for the source files straight away) might not pose much of a problem (as far as I remember from my MSFS days), but somebody would need to write a parser to make that data usable in FG.
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