Board index FlightGear Support Graphics

Partial reflection of the cockpit in PA-28 windscreen

Graphics issues like: bad framerates, weird colors, OpenGL errors etc. Bad graphics ar usually the result of bad graphics cards or drivers.
Forum rules
In order to help you, we need to know a lot of information. Make sure to include answers to at least the following questions in your initial post.

- what OS (Windows Xp/Vista, Mac etc.) are you running?
- what FlightGear version do you use?
- what graphics card do you have?
- does the problem occur with any aircraft, at any airport?
- is there any output printed to the console (black window)?
- copy&paste your commandline (tick the "Show commandline box on the last page of FGRun or the "Others" section on the Mac launcher).
- please upload a screenshot of the problem.

If you experience FlightGear crashes, please report a bug using the issue tracker (can be also used for feature requests).
To run FlightGear on old computers with bad OpenGL support, please take a look at this wiki article. If you are seeing corrupted/broken textures, please see this article.

Note: If you did not get a reponse, even after 7 days, you may want to check out the FlightGear mailing lists to ask your question there.

Partial reflection of the cockpit in PA-28 windscreen

Postby Robertfm » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:46 pm

Split off from the topic Where is the rain?


I have put these pictures here as the shadowing happened after I updated with the rain. On the left it is a partial reflection of the cockpit. Never seen that before.
Edit: Having looked closer it isn't a shadow of this cockpit so even weirder.

Image
Image
Image
Last edited by Johan G on Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Split off from the topic "Where is the rain?"
Robertfm
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:56 pm
Callsign: RFM1
Version: 2020.3.11
OS: W10 v 19041.746

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Robertfm » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:21 pm

Another picture. This is weird, I exited the sim and re started and it was still there.

Image
Robertfm
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:56 pm
Callsign: RFM1
Version: 2020.3.11
OS: W10 v 19041.746

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Johan G » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:43 pm

That is a feature not a bug. :wink: That is a reflection modeled by the ALS internal cockpit reflection. Basically it mimics the same phenomenon as that annoying reflection of the dashboard you often see in the windshield while driving a car. :P
Low-level flying — It's all fun and games till someone looses an engine. (Paraphrased from a YouTube video)
Improving the Dassault Mirage F1 (Wiki, Forum, GitLab. Work in slow progress)
Some YouTube videos
Johan G
Moderator
 
Posts: 6629
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: Sweden
Callsign: SE-JG
IRC name: Johan_G
Version: 2020.3.4
OS: Windows 10, 64 bit

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Robertfm » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:46 pm

It has never been there before the latest update for the rain, so was it modelled at the same time. To be honest it's bloody awful.
Robertfm
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:56 pm
Callsign: RFM1
Version: 2020.3.11
OS: W10 v 19041.746

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:30 am

maybe the devs can tone it down a little bit to maybe be more reasonable? plus, if it is actually as rough looking as it seems, then there's some 3D cleanup work to be done on the dash... but overall, kudos to the devs for adding more realism to the craft! even if it may still need some more love and attention... at least they're willing and able to work on it ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
User avatar
wkitty42
 
Posts: 9148
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:46 pm
Location: central NC, USA
Callsign: wk42
Version: git next
OS: Kubuntu 20.04

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Thorsten » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:37 am

To be honest it's bloody awful.


Yes, things like internal reflections, glare of the sun in fogged or iced surfaces or rain droplets are a real nuisance in reality, because they deteriorate your view quite dramatically. So generally we're happy to introduce them to the sim which forces you to the correct responses - use heating, windshield wipers and tone down internal light to get rid of reflections at night.

(Very few planes have them, so if you don't like that kind of realism, you should have no trouble finding a different plane).
Thorsten
 
Posts: 12490
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:33 am

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Robertfm » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:40 am

Why am I not surprised your response Thorston, 'if you don't like it tough'. Not the contrast with wkitty42's reply. Suggesting that modifications can be done.
Robertfm
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:56 pm
Callsign: RFM1
Version: 2020.3.11
OS: W10 v 19041.746

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Maerchenprinz » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:17 pm

Der RobartFM,

FG is a simulator, not convenient food.
I like it tough!

Ciao,

Adrian
User avatar
Maerchenprinz
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:24 pm
Location: Bochum, it's better, much better than you think!
Callsign: Adrian

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby SurferTim » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:31 pm

Is this reflection feature implemented by aircraft or globally?
I have about everything enabled that I can select, and I don't have this problem with the DHC-6 or the Citation-X.
Of course the first thing I do is turn off any interior lights, especially the Twin Otter.

Thorsten is blunt but accurate. I crashed at Les Saintes after activating "Advanced weather", and he claimed it was wind shear. After adapting my flying to adjust for potential wind shear, I haven't crashed since. And he was correct. Wind shear and downdrafts on the lee side of cliffs. That is what I experience in the simulator in both aircraft.
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
My other aircraft is a Citation-X https://github.com/SurferTim/CitationX
PirateAir videos at https://www.youtube.com/user/SurferTim850
User avatar
SurferTim
 
Posts: 1712
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:49 pm
Location: Miramar Beach, FL
Callsign: Pirate
Version: 2020.4.0
OS: Ubuntu 18.04

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Robertfm » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:49 pm

Tim, the effect has only occurred since the update with the rain feature. I looked at the ALS link above and it would seem that these effects are not mutually inclusive. So the rain effects don't have to have the reflective effect. I also have to say if real planes have this much reflection at night then they are a positive danger when flying at night. The view to the sides is severely restricted.
Robertfm
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:56 pm
Callsign: RFM1
Version: 2020.3.11
OS: W10 v 19041.746

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby SurferTim » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:54 pm

I like flying the sim at night, and do regularly. That would be a problem. Do you have any interior lights on?

Edit: I see rain on my windscreens (front and sides) as I mentioned above. No reflections tho.
If this phenomenon started with the windscreen rain modification, then it is probably by aircraft, not globally.

I lied. I do have reflections, but only when and where they should be. With interior overhead light off, no reflections at night.
I am sitting at St Maarten in the DHC-6 with the sunlight streaming in the right window. I see a dim reflection of the cockpit in the left window.
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
My other aircraft is a Citation-X https://github.com/SurferTim/CitationX
PirateAir videos at https://www.youtube.com/user/SurferTim850
User avatar
SurferTim
 
Posts: 1712
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:49 pm
Location: Miramar Beach, FL
Callsign: Pirate
Version: 2020.4.0
OS: Ubuntu 18.04

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Thorsten » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:25 pm

Suggesting that modifications can be done.


Of course modifications can be done - you can dumb down every FDM so that anyone can fly it, you can add cool-looking video game aesthetics like lens flare and motion blur to FG, you can make the stars so bright they give you a stunning night sky as you can see from ISS.

It's just not the point of developing a simulation. A simulation aims to get close to reality, and in reality sunglare in frozen windows or distracting reflections are very much a nuisance - reality is sometimes pretty, but rather often unassuming and sometimes downright dangerous.

I also have to say if real planes have this much reflection at night then they are a positive danger when flying at night. The view to the sides is severely restricted.


Yes - that is why they dim interior lights when flying at night in reality - cockpits are kept dark and gauges are only dimly illuminated to avoid these reflections and have good eye adaption when looking outside.

You can try it in your car - select a dark road and keep the overhead light on. :mrgreen:
Thorsten
 
Posts: 12490
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:33 am

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Robertfm » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:42 pm

I will try dimming the cockpit lights, on the plane you can do it. On many others you can't. I will see what effect it has.

Edit: Just switched to night, then switched off lights completely and reflection still very prominent.
Robertfm
 
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:56 pm
Callsign: RFM1
Version: 2020.3.11
OS: W10 v 19041.746

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Maerchenprinz » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:13 pm

Hello!

I just wrote a sloppy reply because I thought this discussion is really senseless anyway; I still believe it is, except that it may serve to clarify one important point, which Thorsten already wrote about:
FG IS a simulator and is MEANT TO BE!
And a rose is a rose is a rose... We do not feel the need to ask "Why doesn't it taste salty?" or "Why doesn't it make grungy noises?".
wkitty pointed out that the extent of the effect may be cross checked with real life experience to serve realism, not to make it less annoying - actually, these "annoyances" are called "challenges" in a flight SIMULATOR, and they make my heart beat harder whenever I see them, and even harder when I meet them and make me try again when I don't.

Ciao,

Adrian

P.S.: If you wonder, I just had some spicy chinese food and listening to some Soungarden classics... :)
User avatar
Maerchenprinz
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:24 pm
Location: Bochum, it's better, much better than you think!
Callsign: Adrian

Re: Where is the rain?

Postby Thorsten » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:23 pm

Just switched to night, then switched off lights completely and reflection still very prominent.


vs.

I do have reflections, but only when and where they should be. With interior overhead light off, no reflections at night.


Two people, two different experiences... Try to find out what's different for you then. If implemented correctly, the reflections should disappear with lights.
Thorsten
 
Posts: 12490
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:33 am

Next

Return to Graphics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests