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Papi Lights

Graphics issues like: bad framerates, weird colors, OpenGL errors etc. Bad graphics ar usually the result of bad graphics cards or drivers.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Robertfm » Tue May 21, 2019 5:09 pm

Sorry even with monitors switched off it still took all three images.
Image
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue May 21, 2019 5:19 pm

Maybe try F3 instead of PrtScr? that should take a screenshot only of FlightGear.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Robertfm » Tue May 21, 2019 5:25 pm

Hopefully a better view without the cockpit. Image
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Robertfm » Tue May 21, 2019 5:28 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Tue May 21, 2019 5:19 pm:Maybe try F3 instead of PrtScr? that should take a screenshot only of FlightGear.

I tried that and it won't load into the website using Ctrl V as the screenshot does.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue May 21, 2019 5:32 pm

You need to drag the image from the folder it saves it to into your browser to upload a screenshot or else select the file on your hard drive when prompted by the website.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Robertfm » Tue May 21, 2019 5:41 pm

Sorry to be a pest but were will F3 save it too I can't see anywhere obvious.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue May 21, 2019 5:59 pm

It tells you where it saves it to on the popup ;)

You can also change the directory in File > Screenshot Directory
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Robertfm » Tue May 21, 2019 6:39 pm

I get there in the end. This from 4nm Image

You can just see the runway in the centre furthest shore of the water
Last edited by Robertfm on Tue May 21, 2019 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Thorsten » Tue May 21, 2019 6:41 pm

I can't even see a runway on the shot...

So it's full daylight, no visual on the runway, but you expect to see a 100 Watt lightbulb from 4 miles out - why is that?
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Robertfm » Tue May 21, 2019 7:37 pm

I was referring to the difference between lumens output not hat you could see a 100w from 4 miles. I was using that as a simile with regard to brightness of the Papi lights. According to most things I've read it is not uncommon to see them at 4 miles.
'The Precision Approach Path Indicator (PAPI) uses light units similar to the VASI, but are installed in a single row of either two or four light units. These lights are visible from about 5 miles during the day and up to 20 miles at night.'
https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly ... very-time/

I am sorry you think I am being unreasonable in expecting to see them on FG.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Thorsten » Tue May 21, 2019 7:44 pm

I am sorry you think I am being unreasonable in expecting to see them on FG.


Yeah...

Given that I coded the ALS point sprite version and their visibility with light and distance behavior, you actually might be, because I sure can't figure out from the info you provide what you think is wrong, nor can I figure out what might actually be wrong.

So either you start providing meaningful information and screenshots, or you'll just live with the situation as it is, because we can't magically guess what your problem is.

You can just see the runway in the centre furthest shore of the water


You do realize these are directional lights and you can't see them very far when looking from the side? In this shot, I'm not surprised to not see any lights, that's perfectly okay.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Robertfm » Tue May 21, 2019 8:42 pm

The runway is straight ahead. You asked for screen shots I gave you screen shots, I said what my settings were. What my distance was, I was at 2000ft. Flying a Piper 28PA. The run way is Kinross in Scotland. What else is there.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby ludomotico » Tue May 21, 2019 11:13 pm



According to my real life experience, you will only get a light intensity similar to the one this video shows if you set a forest on fire each time an aircraft approaches the runway.

Check this video under similar light conditions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EEiOw5WgWM

In my opinion, based not only on that video but also my real life, while the sun is high, you can only guess the PAPI lights on short final and distinguish colors on very short final.

Let me compare distances in both videos. Both videos show similar light conditions on the same aircraft, i.e, same speeds.

- FSX in your video shows PAPI lights from minute 8 and touchdown happens on minute 14. PAPI lights are shown during about 6 minutes before landing
- The real video above shows PAPI lights from minute 9 and touchdown happens on minute 10:30. PAPI lights are shown during about 1:30 minutes before landing.

In my opinion, FSX shows PAPI lights from a distance about 4 times longer than you'll see them in real life.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Thorsten » Wed May 22, 2019 5:09 am

The runway is straight ahead. You asked for screen shots I gave you screen shots, I said what my settings were. What my distance was, I was at 2000ft. Flying a Piper 28PA. The run way is Kinross in Scotland. What else is there.


That's kind of up to you - you started this thread because you believe there's a problem. The screenshot you provided to illustrate the issue doesn't show a problem I can see or diagnose, so as far as I can tell from the information you've provided, everything is working correctly.

You may mark the thread as solved then.


In my opinion, based not only on that video but also my real life, while the sun is high, you can only guess the PAPI lights on short final and distinguish colors on very short final.


Yes, I've come to the same conclusion by using math.

It's kind of a calculable problem (in fact, that's how the light visibility is internally done) - the human eye can see colors in a range of 10 stellar magnitudes, so when the sun (mag -27) is out, you can see colors only if the object is brighter than mag -17. You can convert emissivity and radius of a light source into stellar mag like you can for the sun, and then you know whether the object can be seen or not.

It's perhaps not super-accurate, but since the falloff of intensity with distance follows an inverse square law, the cutoff is pretty rapid and so the visibility distance is not overly dependent on accuracy.
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Re: Papi Lights

Postby Parnikkapore » Wed May 22, 2019 5:47 am

Here's the runway (I drew over the image):
Image

At this kind of distance and zoom, the lights would've been antialiased out. The only way the light would show up in this case (assuming it would even appear) is if there's some kind of bloom AA. (Which is not too far from RL but not implemented here.)
There are free alternatives to every program you encounter. You just have to find them.
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