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DDS - ALS shader probs

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DDS - ALS shader probs

Postby Cpt Goosnen » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:31 am

ok this isnt funny-, but i have to laugh! can understand punkepanda now a bit, cause FG is really cheating around with its users sometimes... but thats fg so punke lets smile and do a little troubleshooting ;)
tried the whole evening all different rendering option ways (apart from all ingame slider options of course!) the last chance i saw in another reinstall to the os root partition, but it changed N-O-thing absolutly nix


dear Forum plz translate following lines Line By Line thx





Code: Select all
Enabling ATI viewport hack
SKIPPING POI load on Windows
environment init
Initializing electrical system...
...Done.
Texture file not found: 'Aircraft/Generic/Effects/Gradients.png'
Texture file not found: 'Aircraft/Generic/Effects/Gradients.png'
Texture file not found: 'Aircraft/Generic/Effects/Gradients.png'
Texture file not found: 'Aircraft/Generic/Effects/Gradients.png'
Texture file not found: 'Aircraft/Generic/Effects/Gradients.png'
Texture file not found: 'Aircraft/Generic/Effects/Gradients.png'
Image "C:/simulators/FlightGear/data/Textures.high/Terrain/transition1.dds"
uses compressed textures which cannot be supported on some systems.
Please decompress this texture for improved portability.
Image "C:/simulators/FlightGear/data/Textures.high/Terrain/dirt3.dds"
uses compressed textures which cannot be supported on some systems.
Please decompress this texture for improved portability.
Image "C:/simulators/FlightGear/data/Textures.high/Terrain/snow3.dds"
uses compressed textures which cannot be supported on some systems.
Please decompress this texture for improved portability.

ati viewport what???? i dont have ati anymore! do i?

system:
Nvidia GeForceGTX 560
quadcoreQ955 2.83Ghz
4GB Ram
Vista

FG 3.0




screenshots proudly present by DDS Island.ink
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screenshots proudly present by ALS rnwy.coop
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lower cam angel>>
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in association with Missingfusel age Reflections
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This thread is setup under the terms of "no f...king discussions thx"
i would be happy with all relevant links and solving ideas

and maybe a screenshot guide of a NVIDIA setup x~)


Gruß Tob



ps: if its solved anywhere in here.. im sorry cant read 20.000 topics this fast
actually quite still naive
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Re: DDS - ALS shader probs

Postby Thorsten » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:49 am

Okay, let's try to sort out what you're seeing here. First, note that texture packs (materials.xml file used) are in one sense independent of the rendering scheme. You can render dds textures with ALS just fine. However, ALS procedural textures requires overlay definitions, and these are only available in the regional texture definitions, not in dds, so you are losing ALS functionality if you decide to use the current dds texture pack (that doesn't have to be the case, someone can add overlay definitions to the file just as well, and it would work, just nobody has done it).

Image


This is not ALS but default rendering, and the green spots on the ice are the same effect that gives you the smooth transition along the face of the hill - the inverse slope transition shader. Which is why I said it comes with bad side effects.

The slope transition takes a landclass that has vegetation and draws barren and then rock when the terrain gets steeper and steeper. That's (almost) always justified, because forest and other vegetation can not exist on a vertical rock face, sand can not cling to it,...

The inverse slope transition takes rock and ice landclasses and draws vegetation when they are not steep. That leads to cool transition if, and only if a rock band or a glacier landclass is an actually steep slope. But it makes rock and ice vanish whenever they are flat. So the price you pay for the nice-looking mountain slopes is that you can't really draw a flat rock plateau or a flat glacier surface, because the inverse slope transition inevitably concludes that there must be vegetation there. And once you go to high areas or the arctics, that assumption is just miserably wrong.

Image


That is what ALS gives you if there are no overlay landclasses defined in the area (you could adjust the snowline to make the mountain-tops snow covered just as in the above shot if you wanted). The terrain is not steep enough to warrant a slope transition, so you get the grass drawn as grass and the rock as rock - in essence, there are no transition effects triggered here because the slopes are too soft and the materials file you're using doesn't declare any overlay transitions for the region.


Image

This is what ALS gives you if there are overlay definitions in materials.xml (in the event, this is Denali, Alaska in the Alaska/Northwest territories regional definitions). You see plenty of gradient-driven transitions interspersed with noise-driven transition lines, rocks matted with vegetation - but for instance the glacier remains delineated in a hard way against the rock (which I think is largely realistic, but technically this is because of the absence of the inverse slope transition) and the flat glacier surfaces are always drawn.

########################

Image


Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't understand what the problem is. It looks okayish to me (few things in FG really look good when seen from very close up...). Personally, I prefer it to the hard grainy look Rembrandt gives you:

Image


########################

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I can't honestly see what reflection it is you're missing, the lighting of the aircraft looks fine to me. In general, ALS (like Rembrandt) supports the model ubershader only. So aircraft which utilize that shader look just fine

Image

and those never changed from the old, now obsolete effects just get some default lighting. So issues with aircraft looking different in default and ALS are by and large aircraft-side problems.

Maybe I need a red circle...
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Re: DDS - ALS shader probs

Postby Cpt Goosnen » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:04 pm

allright, thats all in progress so im aware its "fixed" someday anyways (im not rl familar with making scenery or even layers but who knows what comes next x)

some notes:

picture 2-4 shall just show that all transition settings with ALS dont result in that green layer (evrythings allright then)
the runway picture u posted was the good one! the next one shows just a bit dark rnwy when the camangel was lower....
didnt even recognized this before just thought when im on a troubleshooting screeny convent... i post it right


and then the ubershader!!! good to know (also the chrome ALS rembrandt thing) didnt had all the reflections before at the old PC so it wasnt necessary to me....

and last but not least whats with the error log...
how to decompress the dds files.... why ATI... whats POI... where to find the gradients.png.......

regards and THX for the quick reply


ps: did u chek the northern iceshield , on a default FG set (without ur enhanced layers)
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Re: DDS - ALS shader probs

Postby Thorsten » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:34 pm

allright, thats all in progress so im aware its "fixed" someday anyways


If that's about overlay layers for the dds set, I doubt that will go anywhere. The latest suggestion by Rebecca on the devel list was to discontinue the further use of dds for terrain texturing. I don't work with dds textures either, and core devs like Mathias are strongly opposed. It has been debated removing the whole set from the base package and making it an optional download, although I doubt that will happen either.

the next one shows just a bit dark rnwy when the camangel was lower....


Most reliefs in ALS are not done as proper heightmaps but as visual illusions. The pro is that this renders about 10 times faster, the con is that it doesn't look quite as nice from everywhere. So I would chalk this up as something to be accepted - we don't get perfect visuals of the camera 10 cm above the tarmac in low light - I can live with that.

and last but not least whats with the error log...
how to decompress the dds files.... why ATI... whats POI...


You can disregard all of these, they're more 'informative' than a problem. No need for action. (If you must know, the dds thing was put in by Mathias who opposes the use of dds textures in general, the ATI viewport hack is supposed to fix a particular ATI rendering issue, it's harmless if you're not running ATI, POI load is a way of starting up FG faster, which sometimes fails on Win, so it's only done on Linux)

No idea what the problem of the gradient texture is though... Probably it's gone in 3.2, since I don't see it.

ps: did u chek the northern iceshield


I did fly in Greenland a while ago, and the inland ice there looked fine to me.
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Re: DDS - ALS shader probs

Postby Cpt Goosnen » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:42 pm

good that sounds fine.... i searched for the gradients.png cause i hadnt have this report before at the old mashine, so i thougt it might be some effect, but thats good then. The Greenland ice is landmass... i have to check it back but i think it was just shown at the Oceanice..... screenys coming soon this week ^^
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Re: DDS - ALS shader probs

Postby erik » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:50 am

Here's a quick Greenland sightseeing tour from the air:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzCsQsmipq0
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