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Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby BecOzIcan » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:28 am

Wecsje wrote in Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:53 am:eAIP for Australia: https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/aip.asp (not sure where exactly the charts are located).

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip ... rtsTOC.htm
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby Clive2670 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:05 pm

wkitty42....you are "in word" correct in what you say in your post from last night, But here in the UK the law interprets it slightly different. Here are a couple of items (These are only relevent to the UK https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... anners.pdf "So for all those of you who like to use scanning equipment to listen to ATC you are all breaking the law by using the scanner. Owning, purchasing and selling a scanner is not illegal, but in order to legally use it to listen to UK ATC transmissions (and emergency service transmission) you have to be a licensed user of the frequencies in question. Any CAA or JAR certified pilots who are reading this will be fine because they will hold a Radio Operators license as part of their certification, but a normal 'man-in-the-street' is commiting an offence by doing this.Taken fromhttp://flyingcafe.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... eless.html Also if you have noticed by trawling through the internet on any ATC page that, YOU WILL NEVER FIND any page broadcasting ATC over the internet from the UK, This is because of the issues surrounding The Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 (2006) NONE of the above is relevent to other Countries BUT be aware there might be other laws/by-laws in you own Country so be cautious I know that in Germany even if you pull a scanner out of your bag and a Police Officer sees it (even turned off) the chances are you will be arrested! :!:
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby PINTO » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:21 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:03 pm:i would guess that ATC comms are "Broadcast" (they are, right?)


ATC radio transmissions are not broadcast (typically). Broadcast radio means radio without a specific recipient, whereas ATC is normally talking to a specific plane with it's transmissions.
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby Clive2670 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:38 pm

You sre right PINTO, In the UK context "Broadcast" refers to normal Radio (Such as talk, music etc) NOT anything that can't be picked up on a normal handheld, car, Hi-Fi, TV (Radio channels)
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby wkitty42 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:13 pm

interesting definition of "broadcast"... over here, anything that is sent out in a manner that more than one facility can receive it is "broadcast"... even encrypted/encoded transmissions... you might not be able to decrypt or decode them but you can receive them...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby stuart » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:21 pm

Hi Clive,

That's very interesting, albeit a bit depressing. I have a Radio Operator license as part of my PPL, and trained for it separately from the rest of the PPL. There's a clear safety case for allowing trainee pilots who haven't got their radio license to be able to listen to transmissions before they have their license, and I'm sure many trainee pilots do so.

I wonder if the CAA are aware of this restriction...

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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby Jet86 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:01 pm

Does anyone happen to know what the laws are in the US? I'm going there next week and am wondering whether it's worth taking my scanner or not?
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby PINTO » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:26 am

@wkitty, I'm in the US, and that's the FCC's definition of broadcast (reception of that message is intended for the general public). If I'm calling out to one other specific operator on my 2m radio, then it's not a broadcast.

@Jet86, if you're just listening, you're 100% fine. If you're transmitting, that's a whole nother ballpark.

I'm a licensed amateur radio operator in the US.
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby Jet86 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:48 am

Thanks, my scanner is receive only, so I'll be fine :)
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:18 pm

@PINTO: yeah, that's ridiculous, eh? your transmission is broadcast into the ether yet it is not a broadcast... stupid lawyers and politicians trying to define things they don't even understand... don't get me started on what they've done to medical terms...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
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"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby Clive2670 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:47 pm

Just for the record, I do use my scanner in a public place, And also many people do. When I go plane spotting at EGLL (Heathrow) EGKK (Gatwick) Outside the perimeter fences, I have been approached by Security and airport Police on a general enquiry, as to the nature of what I'm doing, and at no time have they told me to either turn off the scanner, attempted to seize it or threaten to report me to either the CAA, the airport (ATC) or OFCOM. So either they are not aware of the law regarding scanners or they don't want the mountain of paperwork involved!!! So it really doesn't concern me here in the UK. As in a earlier post Big-Jet TV who broadcast live on YouTube and Facebook (And several other streams) at least twice a week have NEVER had any hassle from OFCOM regarding the Wireless Telegraphy Act broadcasting Live ATC transmissions over multiple streaming platforms. So me listening in a public place (More privately) doesn't concern me one little bit! I only raised the issue, so that everyone in the UK is aware of the legalities and can make an informed decision for themselves regarding scanners and the Law, then "take the risk" if they want to!
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Re: Finding (and understanding) ATC Frequencies

Postby Johan G » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:03 pm

PINTO wrote in Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:26 am:If I'm calling out to one other specific operator on my 2m radio [...]
[...]
I'm a licensed amateur radio operator in the US.

Somehow I am not all that surprised to see hams/radio amateurs here. To some extent the curious, exploratory, experimental and do-it-yourself mindsets are overlapping, though amateur radio and this open source flight simulator are quite different contexts to operate in.

Just to avoid misunderstandings, I am not a radio amateur myself, though I spent some time at a radio club where I grew up (those were some really great guys).
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