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FGCom announcements

FGCom is a realtime voice communication system specially designed for FlightGear.

Re: FGCom announcements

Postby F-JJTH » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:24 pm

D-Leon wrote in Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:23 am:The fgcom maintainer doesn't want to support multiple server

You are wrong ! I have already explained to you why it's not possible. You must immediately stop to create such wrong rumor like that !

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21581&start=15#p196497

F-JJTH wrote in Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:12 pm:
D-Leon wrote:I don’t understand why you don’t want to make it possible that we can use
multiple fgcom servers?

In August i told you a solution. Let the client dial into the server via a
phone-book. (radio station @ server)


Your solution is not good and the reason is simple:

Imagine that we have a user using the new FGGCom client, this new FGCom client has a phone-book who tell him which server he must contact depending on the frequency (it's clearly the solution you are suggesting)
this user try to be connected to 125.350MHz, this frequency is associated with fgcom02.flightgear.org
Well perfect it works ! but... imagine that a user with an old FGCom client try to be connected to 125.350MHz, which server has to be contacted ??? the old FGCom client cannot answer to this question because the feature is not implemented in the old FGCom.

So clearly, your solution is not "backward compatible". Your solution require to force everybody to update their FGCom client. Jomo is the first person who says it's not expected by the community ( viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21581&p=196486#p196479 ) and making FGCom not backward compatible is another important point supported by Jomo ( viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21581#p196473 )


D-Leon wrote:all servers can have the same dial plan the hoel world!

it doesn't solve the problem....
the user using the new FGCom is connected on fgcom03.flightgear.org because he uses 125.350MHz
the old FGCom client will be connected on which server ? fgcom01.flightgear.org, well nice indeed it works ! the old FGCom client is able to be connected on 125.350MHz because this server has a full dialplan, but... he can't talk with the user using the new FGCom client because he is not on the same server....

Again your solution doesn't works

D-Leon wrote:yes that’s right, there is no compatibility down.


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Clément
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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby D-Leon » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:52 pm

@Clément:
if you already quoting my mails, then please the whole conversation.

It goes along what i can do with the overload of my fgcom server.

Maybe you are able to post your answer here.


To buy bandwith with cpu load makes it much worther to host.

The incomming speex codec is decoded into ulaw in the meetme modul and then encoded for outgoing into speex.

-speex-ulaw-speex

http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+cmd+MeetMe

Some additional notes on Meetme conferences


    The conference bridge runs ulaw codec by default. If you let people connect with GSM or other codecs, Asterisk will use CPU power to convert audio between codecs.


So my server is overloaded with the old and the new fgcom client.

The way out i see is a scalable fgcom network with 3-4 servers. Each one can carry a load of 150GB as easy as mine.
But there fore the client has to dial into multiple servers via a phone-book.
And its true we will lose the compartiblity to old fgcom client.

Otherwise we have to search a bigger server that can carry all.
Every time the server is at his limits.
Or we find a big numbercrusher that can hold it for ever.

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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby jomo » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:41 pm

Just my dime:
If there would be multiple Servers available - why is it not possible to define the "server to be used" by the GPS-location of the caller?
That is easy to define and filtered by the "positions.txt" - and is independent of the frequency. If you define the area for each server e.g. on a borderline that has a width of more then 100mi (e.g. the Atlantic, Pazific, etc.) then there should be no problems. The "unlimited range" frequencencies can be defined for unique servers - independent of user-location.
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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby Gijs » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:44 pm

I just told Leon in a PM that we might have a dedicated server that we can use. More details will follow next week.
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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby F-JJTH » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:30 am

Jörg,
jomo wrote in Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:41 pm:That is easy to define and filtered by the "positions.txt"

Yes it's easy :) But the problem is: if you modify the "positions.txt" file it require that everybody are forced to update their FGCom ! And looking at your more or less recent messages it seems you are the first one who strongly refuse to force everybody to update their FGCom:


http://wiki.flightgear.org/Talk:FGCom
You cannot contact them all in advance and tell them "you have to install FS 3.0 (or GIT 2.99) - otherwise you cannot participate"!

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21581#p196473
And that must be compatible with the older FGFS versions - otherwise we need to maintain 2 versions of FGCOM in order to support ALL FGCom users on ALL Operating-Systems on ALL levels! Not just the FGFS 3.0! Believe me I know: It is much easier to design something new without considering also a "still existing old environment" - but we have to do that if we do not want to loose the majority of existing customers.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21581&start=15
* some will not be very eager to change a very good running system to a new system with unknown reliability – i.e. they will wait till the (always to be expected) initial problems are detected and solutions being available
* some may not even have access to install themselves - and have to ask for help (and I know parents who then say: “Why! It is running ok! Last time your fun-applications disturbed my business applications ….”, etc.
* some are happy enough to have 2 PCs - so they will upgrade one and study over a longer time-frame how good/reliable the new application works
* especially the "very experienced staff" learned over many years: "Never touch a running system!"

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21123
You cannot control when any FGFS-user will upgrade to newer versions. And thus it definitely will confuse/mislead many readers! You cannot control when any FGFS-user will upgrade to newer versions!



So I definitely don't like your solution who force everybody to update their FGCom. FlightGear has been backward compatible for a couple of years I would like the same for FGCom.
The old FGCom must be able to work with the new FGCom client/server without forcing people to update something. This was also your opinion before but now it seems you changed your opinion looking at the solution you are suggesting.



Dirk,

It's true that MeetMe require a uLaw (or aLaw, until it's a G.711 codec it's ok). I've done the choice to use Speex in order to reduce the bandwidth consumption.
However, if you prefer to save your CPU instead of your bandwidth you are free to configure your server for forcing uLaw codec. FGCom 3.0 is able to use Speex and uLaw so there is no problem ;) If you don't know how to configure your server I can send you the required config files, just ask me.



To be honest I know exactly how to support multiple server with FGCom backward compatibility. There is only one solution for that, I'm working on this since a lot of weeks. I know exactly what is required to do, the only problem is that: it doesn't work yet like I want. I'm already able to distribute workload to multiple server, it works with the old FGCom and the new FGCom 3.0 without problem, but I still have a problem I want to solve before publishing the solution.
I have to contact a professsional Asterisk dev to talk with him about the change that I need.

As you can see the idea of "multiple server" is living in my head since a long time... And I have even a working solution since 2 weeks who force nobody to update their FGCom. So please, stop to say that I "refuse to support mutiple server", instead you could help me to find a solution :D You have certainly much more experience/skill than me with Asterisk ! Your help is welcome :)


Merry Christmas !
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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby jomo » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:38 am

F-JJTH wrote in Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:30 am:Jörg,
jomo wrote in Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:41 pm:That is easy to define and filtered by the "positions.txt"

Yes it's easy :) But the problem is: if you modify the "positions.txt" file it require that everybody are forced to update their FGCom ! And looking at your more or less recent messages it seems you are the first one who strongly refuse to force everybody to update their FGCom:
Clément
I am sure I never said something stupid like that! Of course we are changing all our designs all the time, may be with formal releases or GITs or someone presenting something new, etc.. What I asked for, is that people on older levels must be supported! That may be more complex and difficult and time consuming - but that is required for all changes that affect the Multiplayer environment (as is done for technical dependencies). Such changes must be phased in - not cut in!!
May be you could try to look for a phase in plan for your changes! i.e. for my proposal with the "positions.txt" I see no problem at all:
  • Right now we have only the delta384 for standard usage - so no problem at all (except it may become overloaded soon).
  • At the next step we may have two servers (as we had over a long period of time with the original UK and delta384). Right now we are even using 3 servers and are able to tell people which one to use for what! The same way we can ask event managers/inviters to define which server will be used. (We did that at EDDF when we got the new delta384 - and are still doing it when someone has problems to connect).
  • Then (with the next FGFS release or whatever) we distribute a new "positions.txt" that introduces the separation. So customers installing the new version will be automatically connected to the proper server - the others must do that manually (as they do today!). If you really want to help users, you might even find a way to inform users automatically if they need to change their FGCOM-server-address (manually).
  • The problem remaining is: What to do if one server fails or gets discontinued? So you might have to implement an auto-search which servers are available - and can be selected (automatically or manual).
So were is the problem? It definitely is not that bad "Jörg"!
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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby F-JJTH » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:01 am

Asking a user to change of server depending on where he is flying is definitely not something that I want !
Imagine if it was the case with FGMS: I'm flying at KSFO si I must be connected on mpserver03 and now I'm moving and flying at Mexico I need to be connected on mpserver07... Then in Bresilia on mpserver04... wow this is really complicated !!! And you are proposing something similar for FGCom. Well, feel you free to open your text editor and implement it if you are convinced it's the good solution :)

However it seems you didn't read the end of my message where I'm explaining that I have the solution...

The "remaining problem" you are talking is not a problem... Asterisk is able to know the state of a slave. If you want continue to discuss about that I invit you to read the Asterisk documentation and understand how is working Asterisk... obviously you have no idea how Asterisk works :/

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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby D-Leon » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:57 am

fgcom server change

replacment for delta384.server4you.de is fgcom01.flightgear.org

at fgcom01.flightgear.org:

    new dialplan is active
    freqency spacing(8.33Khz) is not working.
    statistik page not avaliable.
    only ulaw avaliable.
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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby wrench11062 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:55 am

I would love to help in this endeavor
I am CrashLander stolen from Larry Nivens book.
I am a retired USAF. All I need are instructions. I can sign off an plane FAA style. cica 1975
Hooked up with FGCOM the old way. Smelled the change and the server change
. Not cool in my book.
I would Love to payback my Love for Flightgear and FGCOM and set up an dedicated server for FGCOM
My system runs 24hrs. I have a CLEAR modem, 50 bucks a month. Runs 3 puters just fine. (willing to explore)
Not rich, but gotta mind. :)
Ya know I run Atlas on a 5 dollar computer I got from a re-pro yard, and the monitors and keyboards.
My friends I only look for everyones satisfaction
Flightgear gave me FREEDOM its the most since I wore stripes.

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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby Michat » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:11 pm

Tally Ho Circa 1975.

Freedom is the most.

Thanks for your help.
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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby wrench11062 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:52 pm

Tgeer,
1st thank you for the FGcom service you have provided. At 1st I thought my fgcom set up was screwed up, but now I know. Have recently installed FGCOM 3.0 and it comes up just
as advertised, but no joy on contact. Even the echo test is alittle strange, lots of re-verb, but I do hear an echo. I'm worried that my current version of Git is up to the new stuff. Have 2 reload the current version
and see. Not rich live on a pension, but would not feel right if I didn't give some bucks for the cause. I will en devour to learn some about the server that would be required. (new field for me). But you would be
surprised at what companies turn over to the repo trash areas here in L.A. Ca. I will commit 20 bucks to the cause, and would consider it on a on going basis if I can hook up with satiable address to send it to.
That is when your beginning service is over the ruff period. I would love to get a dedicated FGcom server for Flight-gear up and running and contribute alittle time and effort. But granted it will take alot of education
and time to do so. I would love to hear the expenses involved, and dread to hear how expensive it is :roll:
Keep on keeping on, hope you find some sort of compromise. Love this Simulation, and Love fg-com.
And I salute you in your cause.

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Please keep on keepin on, may take some time to ketsup and mustard but sooner or later ..... :D
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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby F-JJTH » Tue May 13, 2014 11:49 am

For information, I've disabled all KSFO frequencies on fgcom.flightgear.org
If you try to be connected on a KSFO freq you will have a message "This frequency is disabled" and you can't talk/listen.

Reason:
Because the KSFO frequencies are abusively used without ATC interest.
I've listened at some conversation on KSFO freq and 90% of people connected on KSFO freq are people who use FGCom for talking about their life.
FGCom IS NOT designed to talk about the weather of your town or the health of your dog !
FGCom is designed to reproduce ATC/pilot conversation, only technical aviation sentence must be used.


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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby F-JJTH » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:47 am

Because we have a user (jomo) on the forum who is diffusing the wrong information that new FGCom is not compatible with old FGCom
I'm doing the official announcement that old FGCom is compatible with the new FGCom.

The proof in less than 2 minutes of video:




Now everybody know that old FGCom is compatible with new FGCom.


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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby D-Leon » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:36 pm

I am now closing the fgcom-server( fgcom01.flightgear.org ).

To all airmen who still use this fgcom-server, please connect to the offical fgcom-server( fgcom.flightgear.org ).

Hope hear you in air.

Regards,
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Re: FGCom announcements

Postby EL-LOKO » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:48 pm

tgreer wrote in Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:13 pm:Hi

As you may or may not know, I host the FGCom server free of charge, and currently I've had to take it down to free up space for my paid clients.

I hope to be able to move it to a different server but for now I have to take it down.

I hope you understand. If you have any questions email me tgreer (funny at symbol) tsone (big dot) info



Are the settings on the wiki correct? I may to try to configure another server for this. Is possible to have your help when I'll need it?
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