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My testimony to the Flightgear Community

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My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby cobe571 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:34 am

Hello,
Today, after several days, probably months, I'm thinking about it, I want to bring my testimony to the Flightgear Community. I approached Flightgear autonomously I think in 2010. At that time I used to create my 3D models with a very modest computer. It had an AMD Sempron 3000+ processor; Memory 508MB (291MB used); Operating System: Debian GNU / Linux 6.0.1. The software was always the Blender everyone loves. On those days everything I saw was just waiting to become a 3D model. So also the planes that I have always loved since I was a child, but that in reality I have piloted very few times. Unfortunately, some injuries and health problems that have always afflicted me, have never allowed me to pursue my dreams, so I decided to draw those dreams. In 2013 I registered at the Forum and I was lucky enough to meet people like Heliah, who had the patience (for a long time and I will always be grateful). He tried to explain me how to insert the 3D models created by me into the simulator. Unfortunately we've never understood each other so well, and I was also very rude to him at some point, and I'm really sorry for that. From that time on I met several other people with whom I interacted and explained other things to me. With some I felt good. With others less well. But from all of them I've certainly learned some very useful things. Someone is offended because of my character that's not so easy, and I also know that peace will never return, because pride is too strong. But I also believe that we can not bear a grudge forever. My illness taught me this. In the last two years my general health has not improved, indeed. Following care and everyday life is not always easy and the time to draw aircraft has become increasingly scarce and difficult. When I read somewhere that for a specific project I decided to change license and take the path of Creative Commons was not to give a commercial boost to my models and thus have greater visibility. How unhappily I had to read, but it was to protect my work, from that same collaborator, from which I was harassed and persecuted to finish as quickly as possible in my role as a modeler. At that point I chose my health and I moved away. I will finish that project when and if I'll have time. I had even stopped drawing for over two years. But now I realize that much more often these things happen because there are misunderstandings. If I entered this Forum years ago it was to give a concrete contribution to the growth of this simulator, and I still want it. That's why I decided to faithfully follow the rule of using the GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE Version 2, June 1991 license for my future work with this simulator. Soon I would like to publish a new 3D model here on this Forum. To start over, I'm developing an aerobatic airplane. I would like it to be as a work of divulgation that explains how to make a plane from beginning to end with a simple language even for those who approach and would like to take inspiration to create his own. I would like to progress like a step by step, where possible and in the most understandable way possible to everyone. It's been a long time since I've been working on a plane for Flightgear and I would really appreciate being helped in the FDM part. When it will be necessary. I know I do not know everything. I also know that I'm not the best modeler in the world. But I know that I want to give a concrete contribution to this simulator, with the 3D models that I have created over the years.

I greet everyone
~Patrizio.
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby curt » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:54 pm

Hi Patrizio,

Thanks for sharing some of your story and your vision and plans for your next project. We do encourage a GPL culture within the FlightGear project, and in some cases, this is required for inclusion in our core repositories, but as an author, you are free to choose any license for your work that best fits your own philosophy, goals, and preferences. James has been working hard on creating and integrating support for 3rd party hangars right in the gui launcher. The ultimate goal is to give content authors the freedom to license and distribute their work however they wish, but still make it as easy as possible for 'ordinary' users to find and install your aircraft.

Best regards,

Curt.
Aerospace Engineering and Mechanics
University of Minnesota
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby Hooray » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:32 pm

disclaimer: I've never done a single 3D model or FDM - let alone a complete aircraft.

With that being said, my impression is that most people wanting to get started with aircraft development get involved in an existing effort, or start out with a really simple aircraft - often, fictional ones, or those not necessarily having a hugely complex FDM or many systems to be modeled.

Given what you said above, you might want to reach out to folks doing glider development - that way, there's a good chance that your existing 3D modeling skills will come in handy, while not having to learn tons of complicated stuff about FDM/systems development/modeling (hydraulics, electrical systems etc).

However, if you'd still like to have the option of exploring some of the more involved topics, my suggestion would be to look at powered gliders (motorgliders).e"

Also, since you explicitly mentioned "simple language", you could also reach out to people speaking your native tongue, and then document the whole journey in your native language - we did have a number of significant contributions that were made that way, and usually someone will step up and volunteer to help with the translation of such contributions. Besides, some of the most complex, and most complete, aircraft modeled to day in FlightGear were apparently created by teams of people who often used their own, non-English speaking, forums/mailing list (or github issue tracker) to coordinate all development.

I don't know if you are interested in fictional aircraft or gliders, but if that's something that you'd consider doing, I am sure that we can come up with a list of existing aircraft/teams that could use a helping hand - maybe even FDM developers specifically looking for a skilled 3D modeler ?

Keep in mind, that we do have some great terrain/scenery and a weather engine that is basically unprecedented.

For instance, a few months ago, I made a posting about the Stemme S-10, which probbaly would fit the bill:

What Aircraft do YOU Want to See in FlightGear?

Hooray wrote:I agree with Bomber in that the posted aircraft may seem like a nice little challenge, and I would have offered help with the Nasal/Canvas side of things - but I disagree with his comments about Thorsten's feedback (I do think however that the extra500 folks may have teamed up prior to creating something, so there's that too) - so I won't offer any help, because I also don't think that's a way to deal with other contributors (no matter if you agree with them, or like them, or not ... - as a matter of fact, I am not easily offended, but would have also felt offended by Bomber's comments ...

Getting back on topic however - personally, I think that in the light of our advanced weather system, but also the wingflex shader (coincidentally both created by Thorsten, too), creating a Stemme S10 motor-glider might be a nice little addition to FlightGear, without meaning years of work. In fact, the cockpit is close enough to a conventional airplane cockpit, that we may be able to reuse many existing instruments:

Close-up: http://www.stemme-powergliders.ch/en/pr ... 7bf074.jpg
Image

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... t/f_stemme

Stemme S10-VT: Powersailing
The best of the best among motorgliders

Originally designed in 1984, the German-built Stemme mates a turbocharged 115-horsepower Rotax 914F engine with a sailplane airframe capable of a 50:1 glide ratio. That means it can fly 50 feet for every foot of altitude lost in gliding flight. This gives the Stemme soaring performance equal to that of high-performance, competition-level sailplanes.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stemme_S10
https://www.stemme.com/s10.html
http://www.stemme-powergliders.ch/en/

wikipedia wrote:General characteristics

Crew: 1 pilot
Capacity: 1 passenger
Length: 8.42 m (27 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 23.00 m (75 ft 6 in) (excluding winglets)
Height: 1.80 m (5 ft 11 in)
Wing area: 18.70 m2 (201.3 sq ft)
Aspect ratio: 28.3
Empty weight: 645 kg (1,422 lb)
Gross weight: 850 kg (1,874 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Rotax 914 F2/S1 turbocharged flat-four engine, 84.6 kW (113.5 hp)
Propellers: 2-bladed

Performance

Cruise speed: 259 km/h (161 mph; 140 kn)
Stall speed: 78 km/h (48 mph; 42 kn)
Never exceed speed: 270 km/h (168 mph; 146 kn)
Range: 1,730 km (1,075 mi; 934 nmi) (maximum fuel)
Service ceiling: 9,140 m (29,990 ft)
g limits: +5.3/-2.65
Maximum glide ratio: 50
Rate of climb: 4.0 m/s (790 ft/min)




EDIT: I only just realized that there is a non-GPL'ed (royalty-free) 3D model (Blender) available, apparently created by someone using FlightGear: https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-models ... -sportster
Image

It's the S6 admittedly, but may still be a good starting point - here's the aircraft flying in FlightGear:
Image

Might be possible to reach out to the developer to see if he'd consider the GPL or not - here's the X-Plane thread on the same aircraft: https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/f ... me-s10-vt/
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby Thorsten » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:48 pm

Patrizio, we'll all be happy to welcome a gifted 3d developer such as you!

Echoing what Hooray has said - making a great aircraft requires lots of skills from different areas, which are hard for a single person to acquire. For that reason, much development these days is done in teams - if you keep your eyes open, there's no shortage of opportunities here.

(And should you ever develop an interest in spaceflight, the Shuttle team could always use a boost... :mrgreen: )
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby cobe571 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:21 pm

Greetings to you all and thanks for your answers. I will try to answer everyone.

@curt:
I understand the needs of other developers, modellers and coders to be able to choose their ideal license. Such as to feel protected in their work. That's good, but after reading so many useful discussions, I definitely chose to adopt the classic GPL2 license for my work to stay in line with FG development. This is to avoid other useless discussions, that only lead to lengthening the time of completion of a project, into endless inner yearnings. I'm trying to introduce some of my 3D models into this great simulator. I do not just want to try, but succeed; because I really want to contribute.

@Hooray:
This is not the first time I have collaborated in the creation of an aircraft in this community. I'm aware too that many planes are waiting to be completed. I know that very well. Anyway I think I already have enough 3D models created by me, yet to be completed and to be introduced, into our beautiful simulator. The entire work I would like to do, should be like a tutorial, valid for the creation of any airplane. But I have not talked about glider development instead about aerobatic flight. So to create an aerobatic airplane for FlighGear. I already have a 3D model that is almost complete that I created for this purpose. Regarding the fictional aspect is another matter. I love it really much but I want to finish some of my real planes first. I have no problem working into groups and teams. But I have to say that it is practically impossible to cooperate with people of my nationality. As far as I know there are very few Italian FlightGear users and even fewer developers I know about.

@Thorsten:
I thank you for your words. I really want to give some of my 3D models, still waiting from years to keep alive into this community. I'm aware that to make a plane is really necessary to know so many things about. As a 3D modeler, I still manage my skills, and still remember many things about how to create an FDM, but not everything for sure. There are so many things to do and to remember. And doing everything alone is certainly not easy. I will begin by launching the project I anticipated, following it in its development. Trying to explain the 3D modeling creation process, the organization of directories and files within them. Let me say also I have always been inspired by space flight. Thank you for the invitation to participate in the Shuttle development team. I'm really honored.

I greet everyone
~Patrizio.
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby Hooray » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:05 pm

One important thing to point out is that using the GPL+ for any of your work explicitly grants the permission to re-brand and resell your work - that is something that many people are/were not aware of (including even some long-time contributors/core developers). Thus, if there is any possible scenario/use-case that you explicitly disagree with, you are well-advised to reconsider using the GPL and if in doubt read its exact wording/FAQ (if in doubt, using a translated version).

Other than that, I have no idea how many people are from Italy - many people around here don't even fill in the corresponding profile fields while registering on the forum, so it is hard to tell - but I am sure that if you start a new topic (maybe cross-posting in Italiano/English), listing your skills and what you're looking for, people will show up who'd be very interested to collaborate with you.

Regarding your existing 3D work/models, it would be possible to introduce your 3D models rather easily, by using a "stub" (placeholder) for aircraft-specific parts, e.g. the FDM and effects/animations.

You could also post a list of your 3D models (maybe in conjunction with screenshots) and ask if someone is around who feels capable of coming up with a first basic FDM for one of your models.

Finallly, I'd like to add that the p51d is still looking for a new maintainer - since its developer (Hal v. Engel) sadly passed away a while ago, so that might be another opportunity to get involved - obviously, the learning curve is huge, because Hal basically possessed all the skills that would normally require a whole team of dedicated aircraft developers.

PS: It is my impression that the S10 is also used for aerobatics (?)
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby cobe571 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:35 pm

Hello Hooray :)

One important thing to point out is that using the GPL+ for any of your work explicitly grants the permission to...


Choosing a license such as GPL 2 is essential for working within the FlightGear environment. The useless and unremarkable discussions I've read in recent months have made me think again about different things and have confirmed to me how "the fried air" is inconclusive in everything you do. If someone will use my 3D models, for their purposes and even want to sell them, it means that they believe they are really valid. Well, I'm very honored. Someone has already done it with my other models in the past and were still protected by a much more restrictive license. It was enough for him to cut my model into pieces. add or change some details and you're done.

But this is not the point. And I do not even care anymore. The most important thing is that I want to contribute fully to this simulator, as unfortunately I could not do in the past for one reason or another. The best thing, however, would be to see my planes fly in this simulator and that anyone can use them without limits.

Other than that, I have no idea how many people are from Italy


With regard to Italian users, I do not know how many really are. I think those few are sporadic users and this is a big limit for the growth of this simulator in my country. Many less are the real developers of any project. I know however that they are really very few. In the only Italian page on facebook I can not interact with anyone because I'm stuck by the admin (abassign), which he believes, I have no right to speak.

You could also post a list of your 3D models (maybe in conjunction with screenshots)


Here's a shortlist of my waiting planes:

My first attempt to enter the world of flightgear was this Boeing YF-118 Bird Of Prey n collaboration with Emmanuel Baranger for the FDM part. Unfortunately never completed.

Image

So I look at the powerful Lockheed U-2S spy plane.. It was done in collaboration with Cem Aydin and Emmanuel Baranger. Unfortunately never completed.

Image

Meanwhile I started models like the Macchi M.C. 205 V Veltro. Never textured. Never completed.

Image

The Aermacchi MB-326-E. Never textured. Never completed.

Image

Then I go for another airplane: the Alenia C-27J Spartan done in collaboration with Emmanuel Baranger for the FDM part. Unfortunately never completed.

Image

Later I get involved into the Fiat G-91 R4 development creating a 3D model for that. By a request of abassign that worked the FDM part. I love my plane instead the fact I stop the develpment whit his italian team years ago.

Image

From that time I go workin on a totally new IF1 racing plane the VSR - SR-1 "SNOSHOO" But I stopped the development months ago

Image

And now the almost finished Extra EA-300 that miss just textures and the interior part.

Image

As you see Hooray this is my shortlist of planes to finish and even to start again... But I have more planes waiting aren't listed there. I hope that people out there will help me a bit to finishing them. That's my great hope. A day for sure I'll go mantaining other planes. Like the P51D and the S10 you mentioned. But I need more experience.

Greetings
~Patrizio.
Last edited by cobe571 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby D-ECHO » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:44 pm

Hi cobe,
what's the reason you never finish your models? They are looking great and if I can help you with anything regarding (glass) instrumentation, FDM (YASim and a bit of JSB), animation and general coding stuff, I'd be glad to do so :)
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby cobe571 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:42 pm

Hello D-ECHO :)

what's the reason you never finish your models?


From 2014 to today I have had several very serious problems concerning my health. Only lately I managed to take back everything I had almost abandoned. Now I'm here to complete them all. One by one.

if I can help you with anything regarding (glass) instrumentation, FDM (YASim and a bit of JSB), animation and general coding stuff, I'd be glad to do so


I'm really happy to read these words. It is not easy for me to stay concentrate on all my projects and do everything by myself; so your help is really, so many appreciated. You can't imagine how much I thank you. That means alot for me.

Soon I will open a topic to start the new project Extra EA300. I want to start again into FG development with this aerobatic plane first. I already have in mind the main texture will have the typical FlighGear colors to draw its first livery. Every next suggestion is really welcome as well.

Thank you really much again D-ECHO

Greetings
~Patrizio.
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby gsagostinho » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:23 am

Patrizio, that Extra EA300 is looking really good, that would be such a welcome addition to FG! I look forward to your projects :D
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby D-ECHO » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:49 am

Great to hear this, cobe :) I really like the EA300, so I'd be happy to help. As I had a bit too much time today ;), I started making the cockpit placards texture and instruments (ASI, G-meter) from http://www.bruceair.com/extra300l/image ... ockpit.jpg and https://www.extraaircraft.com/docs/serv ... -09-20.pdf
Image
Image
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Re: My testimony to the Flightgear Community

Postby cobe571 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:23 pm

Hello D-ECHO :D

I started making the cockpit placards texture and instruments (ASI, G-meter) from (...)


How amazing are you... Very well done Sir. Time to start the topic Extra EA-300 I presume :) Thats really good. Jealously preserves all the images you're producing, so you can put them in the right post I'm going to open soon. Probably today at 23.00 circa - London time.

Talk later :)

~Patrizio.

link -> viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33892
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