Board index FlightGear The FlightGear project News

Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

News from the ever evolving world of FlightGear.

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:28 pm

yes. I was looking at the git svn software, and it may be a way for me to go around the decision of the devs here.

I may/may not develop. I don't like to just blatantly chop my options of participate in aircraft polishing just out . I am not a proficient developer yet, but I've been learning the ins and outs of how contributions are made to Flightgear. I have been testing my skills in 2 projects: One scenery related (KXTA) and one aircraft related (EF-Typhoon), which I am currently hosting at github (https://github.com/IAHM-COL)

In any case, I was hoping to get some instruction into how to move forward. Essentially

1. Flightgear is still and will still be at gitorious
2. Simgear is still and will still be at gitorious [YES, I do compile from source!]
3. fgdata (the "base" or "required" simplified package) will still be at gitorious
4. fg-addon (which host the plethora of aircraft) is now hosted in SVN (a different animal!)

Now, In my current settings (and I wont surprse this is most everyone-else), the "fg-addon" resides in fgdata/Aircraft/*
(Naturally), now

1. If I clone fgdata (today), will it come still with the planes? (I see them still up in gitorious)
2. So ... If I decide to merge the SVN, will I perform such SVN command inside fgdata git-directory? so all my aircraft now downloads in fgdata/Aircraft/* or is there a change in how this is being managed now?!
3. If I place the add-on SVN inside fgdata, I expect this to mess with my "git status" for fgdata! To the least, now I will have a directory that the repo does (or will ) not
--How on earth to manage / stash that incongruence, or is this non-incongruence at all?!

I do follow the arguments of Johan G above. Thans for putting it clear cut. Our problem is size+traffic, and I can definitely see that being a git-conflict. But on general terms, how is ppl managing the add-on (not in fgdata anymore) nowadays?
Last edited by IAHM-COL on Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:31 pm

sanhozay wrote in Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:21 pm:
Johan G wrote in Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:15 pm:
Is this a common usage model?
ETC


+1
+2 if I am allowed to vote with both hands
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:35 pm

sanhozay wrote in Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:21 pm:With Subversion these users can and probably will checkout and update the trunk, just as they did with Git. The initial checkout is twice the size of the Git clone and therefore generates twice the traffic. So you'd only need half the user population who want to pull from version control to want a full checkout and you have the same traffic as with Git.



SOOO TRUE
At least for me that's what I am looking forward to do. checkout the trunk.
Given I had not been able to understand WHY! (in spite of some clarity provided by Johan G),
Still figuring out how. At the expense of needing to bring down the several gigs of plane-code back ....

As I said, for the end-user, quite a set back.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby AndersG » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:44 pm

Do not place fg-addon inside fgdata! That is just creating needless pain for you.
Place it outside and use --fg-aircraft=<path/to/fg-addon> to make them visible to FG.

For those that have done local work on aircraft in their own clones of fgdata/git I can recommend using git-filter-branch to create small git repositories for each aircraft they've worked on. This small repository can then also be subscribed to the corresponding subdirectory of fg-addon using git-svn so that you can pull upstream changes and, if you have commit access, push changes to SVN. However, it is likely that you will have to juggle several branches with cherry-picking and rebases (depending on how clean you want to keep your git history). This is what I intend to do as I split my aircraft into small git repositories already the previous time fgdata was (almost) split.

/Anders
Callsign: SE-AG
Aircraft (uhm...): Submarine Scout, Zeppelin NT, ZF Navy free balloon, Nordstern, Hindenburg, Short Empire flying-boat, ZNP-K, North Sea class, MTB T21 class, U.S.S. Monitor, MFI-9B, Type UB I submarine, Gokstad ship, Renault FT.
AndersG
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Callsign: SE-AG
OS: Debian GNU Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:53 pm

AndersG wrote in Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:44 pm:Do not place fg-addon inside fgdata! That is just creating needless pain for you.
Place it outside and use --fg-aircraft=<path/to/fg-addon> to make them visible to FG.


I did not place it there. It was there in the first place, when everything was a single git (fgdata)

And I know that much you quoted above. 1) I know that the fg-addon should go to somewhere else. And I know how to re-route fg (with or without the command line). You are missing my whole point.
Now getting things to work requires quite a lot of USER INPUT that was not necessary before, listing
1) get fgdata (with git)
2) get fgaddong (with svn) make sure it is somwhere else not in fgdata
3) modify the launching method now, because all your planes had gone somewhere else
4) make sure how you modify it, do not remove the fact that THERE ARE STILL PLANES in fgdata. Most of the best ones too (THE BASE PACKAGE)
(so it does not look like yours above for a command, more like this)
--fg-aircraft=<path/to/fgdata>:<path/to/fg-addon>
5) fgdata, if cloned clean, or git updated, or git pulled or whatever still have the same planes. THEY ARE STILL THERE.
So I will have two copies of these planes. (hard drive resource wasting?!)... beside, how do this work? Is fg choosing the one in fgdata or the one in fgaddon?! Does this deppend in the order of my aircraft folder linking as above?

Are this many required NEW configurations really that end-user friendly?! maybe not. So although I am missing the whole point, I am certain that having part of the project hosted differently (git vs svn), is providing FG a HUGE advantage, that means for me to compromise for the ultimate best-goal

For those that have done local work on aircraft in their own clones of fgdata/git I can recommend using git-filter-branch ... ETC
/Anders


This has gone too technical now. But I am ok with that since I can get the luxury of loosing the few personal modifications to my planes, for now.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:54 pm

IAHM-COL wrote in Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:53 pm:I did not place it there. It was there in the first place, when everything was a single git (fgdata)[/b]


If the goal was to "simplify" fgdata cloning, in the first place, and leaving the plethora of aircrafts appart, was working this as submodules ever considered?!
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby wlbragg » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:24 pm

IAHM-COL, I too was taken aback by this at first as I knew NOTHING about SVN, (however I knew next to nothing about git only a year back).
I still have my doubts about the wisdom of splitting up the same data set over two entirely different versioning systems. I also don't think having to have aircraft in two different places makes a whole lot of sense. It does appear that with the decisions made, that this is the way it will have to be.

But I must say AndersG has highlighted and given me the options I was looking for.
git-filter-branch and --fg-aircraft=<path/to/fg-addon> (which I am already using with fgrun) are the ticket for me.

I don't pretend to know the merits of either system but I can guess there are advantages and disadvantages either way.
I can only say, If it were up to me I would have made every attempt to keep it consistent (either way) as this "split" (as in versioning systems for the same data sets) is just plain ugly.

PS. It's not like we didn't have a chance to post out opinions prior, we knew this was coming.
Kansas(2-27-15)/Ohio/Midwest scenery development.
KEQA (2-27-15), 3AU, KRCP Airport Layout
User avatar
wlbragg
 
Posts: 4495
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:31 pm
Location: Kansas (Tornado Alley), USA
Callsign: WC2020
Version: next
OS: Win10/Debain/nVGT640

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby AndersG » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:34 pm

4) make sure how you modify it, do not remove the fact that THERE ARE STILL PLANES in fgdata. Most of the best ones too (THE BASE PACKAGE)
(so it does not look like yours above for a command, more like this)

You can expect the "addon" aircraft to disappear from fgdata soon, so the problem with duplicated aircraft is temporary.

Personally I would by far preferred that the aircraft in fgdata were split into per-aircraft git repositories (as was almost done years ago) rather than moving them to this "CVS done right" (as if that is even possible... :). OTOH, the ever increasing size of the old fgdata meant that the monolithic solution would not scale in the longer run (though, whoever downloads the full SVN will suffer similar problems eventually).

When comparing git and SVN it is worth noting that the latter stores two copies of each file in the working directory but (of course) only downloads them once, so if the SVN server uses appropriate compression the download for an initial checkout will be smaller than what git clone downloads since git downloads the full history. (OTOH is the git history amazingly well compressed - try compressing the .git directory using zip, gzip or bzip2 and you'll probably see that you gain little).
Last edited by AndersG on Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Callsign: SE-AG
Aircraft (uhm...): Submarine Scout, Zeppelin NT, ZF Navy free balloon, Nordstern, Hindenburg, Short Empire flying-boat, ZNP-K, North Sea class, MTB T21 class, U.S.S. Monitor, MFI-9B, Type UB I submarine, Gokstad ship, Renault FT.
AndersG
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Callsign: SE-AG
OS: Debian GNU Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:35 pm

Agreed Wlbragg..
I understand AndersG is trying to help me out here. I thank him for that. I am just afraid he is totally loosing my points. First he suggests that If I am not a developer, git or svn is not the way to go.
Secondly, --fg-aircraft. It needs to point to BOTH aircraft locations now. fgdata and fgaddon. Or you will not get the planes in the other place available. So in your case chec that. With your current settings, do you still have the b1900d?

One of my main points is summarized in your last line. We now have an split. Part of FG is handled in git. The base package, + systems (fgfs, etc), + dependencies (simgear etc). The other part is handled in SVN (the addon or aircraft). How on earth this dicotomy came to be as the logical move is one of my outcries. (aside my own personal preferences a.k.a git)

The second main point you clearly outlined too. Having different houses (ie directories or path) for different aircraft. Ie, the ones living in fgdata or base aircraft, and the other ones living in the Olympus (I mean fg-addon). Setting an --fg-aircraft path now is a must. Before, the "Default" was working out of the box. Now, any passenger (the FG layman like me) do need to reroute the aircraft path. Every passenger.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:36 pm

@AndersG

Please do not take my words as against you. They are not. (as I titled my first post in this thread, I am just legitimately crying here --full snot on)
I do appreciate greatly your efforts to help me here ;)

IHCOL
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:38 pm

@Wlbragg ps

It was a cold shower surprise to me :(
Onox brought it to my attention in the USA tour leg 32nd thread... and I reacted with disbelief at first, because it sounded soooo asinine
Now to realize he wasn't playing a dutch-joke on me.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25247&start=30#p231106

(apparently it some sort of a french one)
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:42 pm

AndersG wrote in Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:34 pm:You can expect the "addon" aircraft to disappear from fgdata soon, so the problem with duplicated aircraft is temporary.

What a heart-ache

AndersG wrote in Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:34 pm:Personally I would by far preferred that the aircraft in fgdata were split into per-aircraft git repositories (as was almost done years ago) rather than moving them to this "CVS done right" (as if that is even possible... :).

True true. Maybe not that fast thou. individual git repositories meaning 400 git clone commands? scripting time!?
Why not submodules?! (I say again... to the air)

An sorry for the torment here. :oops: :roll:
But all this matter little. See wlbragg summary above to really gain insight on my outcry
He phrases it quite nicely
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby AndersG » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:45 pm

No worries, you are really stuck in a mess since the migration is only half done at this point in time.

I solve that by having no time whatever to use FG anyway but for others, you could make a new temporary branch in fgdata where you clean out the aircraft you rather get from fg-addon - git rm -r should work well for that. Btw. I think fgdata/Aircraft is automatically in the fg-aircraft path so you don't need to add it with --fg-aircraft=.

If you have 400 separate git repositories I suppose you can import them into one ore a few as submodules or just use scripts to operate on them. I don't think anyone really worked out a strategy for the case. And do you really want all 400 of them. I know I wouldn't :)
Callsign: SE-AG
Aircraft (uhm...): Submarine Scout, Zeppelin NT, ZF Navy free balloon, Nordstern, Hindenburg, Short Empire flying-boat, ZNP-K, North Sea class, MTB T21 class, U.S.S. Monitor, MFI-9B, Type UB I submarine, Gokstad ship, Renault FT.
AndersG
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Callsign: SE-AG
OS: Debian GNU Linux

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby wlbragg » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:55 pm

since git downloads the full history

Since you mentioned this, does SVN retain the "FULL" history?
Can anyone get that history?
I ask because there are jewels buried deep in git history that we just can't loose!
Kansas(2-27-15)/Ohio/Midwest scenery development.
KEQA (2-27-15), 3AU, KRCP Airport Layout
User avatar
wlbragg
 
Posts: 4495
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:31 pm
Location: Kansas (Tornado Alley), USA
Callsign: WC2020
Version: next
OS: Win10/Debain/nVGT640

Re: Aircraft are now hosted on SVN

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:55 pm

yes ... I have them all (and want them all 400+)... crazy me :)

but to blindly quote the git svn instructions I am trying to follow right now:

http://git-scm.com/book/en/v1/Git-and-Other-Systems-Git-and-Subversion wrote:It’s important to note that when you’re using git svn, you’re interacting with Subversion, which is a system that is far less sophisticated than Git. Although you can easily do local branching and merging, it’s generally best to keep your history as linear as possible by rebasing your work and avoiding doing things like simultaneously interacting with a Git remote repository.

Don’t rewrite your history and try to push again, and don’t push to a parallel Git repository to collaborate with fellow Git developers at the same time. Subversion can have only a single linear history, and confusing it is very easy. If you’re working with a team, and some are using SVN and others are using Git, make sure everyone is using the SVN server to collaborate — doing so will make your life easier.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it? Probably not, because if they don’t recognise their freedoms, they’ll let their freedoms fall
User avatar
IAHM-COL
Retired
 
Posts: 4064
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm
Location: Homey, NV (KXTA) - U.S.A
Callsign: HK-424D or ICAO4243
Version: 3.7-git
OS: Linux

PreviousNext

Return to News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest