Board index FlightGear Support Multiplayer

Access to MPserver12

Trouble getting online, setting up a server?
Forum rules
In order to help you, we need to know a lot of information. Make sure to include answers to at least the following questions in your initial post.

- what OS (Windows Xp/Vista, Mac etc.) are you running?
- what FlightGear version do you use?
- copy&paste your commandline.

Please, also see Requesting Technical Help.

Note: If you did not get a reponse, even after 7 days, you may want to check out the FlightGear mailing lists to ask your question there.

Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby simbambim » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:29 pm

Yes. Evilslut did what he did, but what troubles me is that so many people, including moderators, jump readily to his defense instead of condemning it.
And please stop talking about private space. It's meant to be a public access server.

Johan G wrote in Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:24 pm:I am surprised that no one have mentioned the possibility, albeit slim, that this could be due to purely technical problems. ;)

I have. That's why I was asking for a statement from the maintainer himself.
Fly on VATSIM and die.
simbambim
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:41 pm
Version: 3.2

Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby Crashpilot » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:32 pm

Thorsten wrote in Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:11 pm:
In my opinion a server becomes "official" if it is resolveable as a subdomain of flightgear.org, and/or if it is announced as an official one by the flightgear wiki.


Pretty much everyone can edit the wiki. You could declare anything official infrastructure by the mere expense of making a wiki entry. Doesn't fly. I think the first three words of your statement are the key here... As for the domain, that's also privately owned and paid for. See above...


So everyone acts as an individual, there is no acting in behalf of the project/community? There is no whole, no commonality?

In your opinion Curtis, as the owner of flightgear.org, could associate http://www.flightgear.org with an IP of a webserver containing offensive content or malware, and you are okay with it because Curtis owns the domain and pays for it? Because there is no association between the domain and the abstract entity "flightgear", however this entity is defined?

Luckily Curtis doesn't share your point of view.

In fact, Curtis recently backed up and legitimated the decision to ban two members from the flightgear forum by "a larger group". He did this, because he doesn't feel that he is acting as an individual, but as part of something. The two members were banned on behalf of the core community. Though he is the owner of the domain, he felt the obligation to that entity "community" to not use his power on his own.
Those two members were excommunicated, because they were harming the interests of the project. They did it in many ways, one way was to illegitimately advocating an unofficial ressource as an offical one on the wiki.

This shows that my opinion is actually -as you say- "the key here", as it obviously reflects the opinion of Curtis and apparently of various other people.

There indeed does exist an entity "flightgear", you can act on behalf of it, and if you do so, you have to respect the interests of it. By advocating your server on wiki and enjoying a DNS association you express to be part of this entity (Another story would be if DNS and wiki entry would be established against your will, but this doesn't seem to be the case right now), and therefore you mustn't violate the community interests.

Now there is the question whether arbitrary banning is such an violation or not. I don't need to answer it here. And to state it clearly: I am not stating that Rob/evilslut didn't have very valid reasons for his decisions. I am just questioning the comprehension of some people here that every admin of an xyz.flightgear.org server can offend user of it arbitrary without harming flightgear. Which is obviously NOT the case.

Luckily, it is not necessary that Thorsten shares this point of view, because as long as Curtis believes in the existence of the entity "project/community" and lives it, Thorsten has to accept this concept: In his understanding, Curtis as the owner and payer of the domain is legitimated to "enforce" this concept.

It is true, that this entity is depended on the goodwill of some people, who have a lot of power by circumstances. I thank Curtis and various other for not abusing their power and to believe in some kind of constitution of this project.
Last edited by Crashpilot on Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Crashpilot
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:38 pm
Location: Cologne

Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby Crashpilot » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:44 pm

Thorsten wrote in Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:06 pm:That is what 'privately owned infrastructure' means. It's under the control of a private person. He can do whatever he likes with it. He is voluntarily donating the service under conditions of his design, under no legal obligation to let us use the server. We can't command him to do anything, no matter how we vote. I know that's not how you want it to be, but that's how it is - so please deal with it.


If people have physical power by owning a domain, having access to server hardware and so on, yes, you kind off rely on their cooperation. But so do they: If they abuse their power massively, people would start to ignore them.

Nothing stops Curtis from going nuts and pointing *.flightgear.org to completely arbitrary IPs. But how long would it take until the community would agree upon another domain, rendering the former one irrelevant?

In the end, it is a matter of cooperation, spirit of a group and - trust.
Last edited by Crashpilot on Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Crashpilot
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:38 pm
Location: Cologne

Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby Gijs » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:44 pm

One thing to consider is that we have just a single official forum, while we have a dozen official mpservers. Being blocked from one of those mpservers does not deny you from the multiplayer network. At some point good old mpserver02 for example blocked used from certain locations if I remember well.
Airports: EHAM, EHLE, KSFO
Aircraft: 747-400
User avatar
Gijs
Moderator
 
Posts: 9384
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Amsterdam/Delft, the Netherlands
Callsign: PH-GYS
Version: Git
OS: Windows 10

Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby Crashpilot » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:55 pm

Gijs wrote in Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:44 pm:One thing to consider is that we have just a single official forum, while we have a dozen official mpservers. Being blocked from one of those mpservers does not deny you from the multiplayer network. At some point good old mpserver02 for example blocked used from certain locations if I remember well.


Should the inconvenience caused be a criterion in this matter?
Crashpilot
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:38 pm
Location: Cologne

Re: Access to MPserver12

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:26 pm

@JOHAN, since our pages show 808 errors, and IAHM-COL can access via TOR, the chances of that are less than .000000000015
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Callsign: YV-LEGO
Version: next
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: Access to MPserver12

Postby MIG29pilot » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:25 pm

Hey, what's IAHM-COL doingwith TOR anyway?
User avatar
MIG29pilot
 
Posts: 1454
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:03 pm
Location: 6 feet under Snow
Callsign: MIG29pilot
Version: 3.7nightly
OS: Windows 10

Re: Access to MPserver12

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:00 pm

Accessing the website that he has been blocked via IP from.
Or else, just so happened to have a very convenient wipe-out of data of two users and just happened to bring the website down.
Tell me, can you access mpserver12.flightgear.org?

Please, tell me the truth.
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Callsign: YV-LEGO
Version: next
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: Access to MPserver12

Postby MIG29pilot » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:56 pm

Yes. By the way, TOR is the sort of thing hackers and cybercriminals use.
*grimace* no accusation of course, but that's the explanation to my question.
User avatar
MIG29pilot
 
Posts: 1454
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:03 pm
Location: 6 feet under Snow
Callsign: MIG29pilot
Version: 3.7nightly
OS: Windows 10

Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:57 pm

radi wrote in Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:41 pm:BTW you don't need any software installed or even register to use IRC, there are web clients, e.g. https://www.mibbit.com/, and Rob is apparently an admin of nl.irc.flightgear.org.


Does not seem to work.
Can you reccomend a webIRC client that will work?
That is, for fligtgear IRC.

mibbit works but it doesn't work for our IRC networks.
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Callsign: YV-LEGO
Version: next
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: Access to MPserver12

Postby MIG29pilot » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:58 pm

But I cannot register a new account
User avatar
MIG29pilot
 
Posts: 1454
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:03 pm
Location: 6 feet under Snow
Callsign: MIG29pilot
Version: 3.7nightly
OS: Windows 10

Re: Access to MPserver12

Postby enrogue » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:12 pm

try https://kiwiirc.com for a webirc client - I was able to get onto nl.irc.flightgear.org with it
User avatar
enrogue
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 6:40 pm
Location: London (UK)
Callsign: enrogue
OS: OS X, Ubuntu

Re: Access to MPserver12

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:25 pm

Mig29, explain what you mean. Mpserver12.flightgear.org is a mptracler and does not need accounts.
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Callsign: YV-LEGO
Version: next
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: Access to MPserver12

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:29 pm

Thanks - figured out where to put nl.irc.fligtgear.org!
Chatting to Evilslut right now.
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Callsign: YV-LEGO
Version: next
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: Access to MPserver12

Postby enrogue » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:32 pm

By the way - there is another tracker at http://mpserver15.flightgear.org/modules/fgtracker/ that appears to track mpserver01, mpserver03 & mpserver16
User avatar
enrogue
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 6:40 pm
Location: London (UK)
Callsign: enrogue
OS: OS X, Ubuntu

PreviousNext

Return to Multiplayer

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests