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Access to MPserver12

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Access to MPserver12

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:49 pm

This is unacceptable.
A day or two ago, IAHM-COL reported the **deletion** of his tracking page, and blocking of his IP on mpserver12.
Today, I face this issue. I cannot access the website.
Now, he has shown proof that he can access it via Tor.
Look, I am in the mood for threats. I may see to it that every major flight sim news site gets the story of the blocking. I am being serious. I'll let EVIL-S2 or whoever mantains mpserver12 respond, then will see what happens. Of course I will tell you 24 hours notice before I post it by email to the sites... then you can ban me.
And I don't appear on the mpmap any more either. But then it seems to have been buggy for a day or two. But as the proof below shows, this about IH-COL is not a bug but a downright blocking.

Proof:
http://mpserver12.flightgear.org/tracker/pilot/IH-COL
Image
Image

Pictures by IH-COL, from http://thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby stuart » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:54 pm

Hi,

As you say, this is something to take up with the person who owns, runs, and pays for the server. I'd point out that mpserver12 isn't run (as far as I am aware) by any of the core developers.

However, I don't think this is censorship. Each of the various MP Servers are owned and paid for by individuals, who surely get to choose who uses the bandwidth and electricity they pay for?

-Stuart

PS: Apologies for this topic disappearing for about an hour - it was removed by an overzealous moderator. I've re-instated it.
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby IAHM-COL » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:58 pm

stuart wrote in Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:54 pm:who surely get to choose who uses the bandwidth and electricity they pay for?


Well. Certainly that is not how services are supposed to be run :|

If lego needs to know where to contact someone to get his account working, the owner of the server 12 is Rob, and can be found in the forum under "evilslut" nick.


Good luck getting the service reinstated on your account, Lego
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:36 am

No, not the account but the post :)
Thanks.
Oh and I cannot find evilslut on the member list
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby Thorsten » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:20 am

Regardless of my personal opinion on what takes place on MPServers, I would like to point out that I can't see circumstances under which it would be censorship.

Censorship is generically the suppression of an expression of an opinion. I don't think anyone's presence on an MP server represents such an expression.

If you enter my house, and I ask you to leave, and if you refuse to go I ask the police to drag you out, this isn't censorship on my side, it's trespassing on your side. First of all, you have no right to remain in my house, you are there by my permission, and the moment I revoke that permission it's gone. In other words, my house is not a public space but a private space. Second, that implies that you can not say inside my house whatever you want, there's no 'freedom of speech' which allows you that.

As has been pointed out, the MP Servers are privately owned and maintained infrastructure, not public spaces. You have no rights whatsoever on them, you are there as a guest by the leave of the owner. Neither does the FG project have any official standing on them. The owner legally doesn't need a set of rules and a violation from your side, it is enough that he no longer likes your presence to make you leave (I don't need to wait for strangers in my house to do anything wrong before I can ask them to leave - lack of permission is enough).

How you morally judge the decision is your own thing, but legally it does not constitute censorship, there is no obligation for anyone running a private server to adhere to a set of rules, be impartial or judge fairly.
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:40 pm

Oh ok, but I still would like a reason why.

Plus, AFAIK he is not active on the forums, so how would he know I defended IAHM's blocking from mp12?
So, my money is you or some one else told.
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby simbambim » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:53 pm

The problem is that even though the server is privately maintained, it is intended for public use. So an argument about "my house" is not valid.
If this is true, it's a disgrace. How can supposedly smart people who are able to run servers sink so low?
And why legoboy? I know IAHM-COL has annoyed many, but lego? Has he offended anyone?

KL-666 wrote:Someone that offers a service must be agnostic about political opinion, color of skin, and what have you more... My servers are only defended against people that attack them, not against political opinions. If i were to make distinction there, i would be running a political party, not a service.

[edit]
With claiming to run a service comes a responsibility. One just can't go about like: "Oh i do not like you, so i'll ban your ip in my firewall". In such case you do not run a true service.

I dislike many people, so if it were up to me i'd ban most people. But it is not up to me, but up to the rule to be agnostic. So i allow everyone.

Final and last addition: Frankly i find it childish to ban people you dislike. It is clearly a case of someone not understanding the responsibilities of claiming to offer a service.
[/edit]


+1
Will the maintainer have the courage to come and say openly: yes, I did that? (still having a faint hope it's some kind of misunderstanding)
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:21 pm

Anyway, I just realized, there goes resume material when I go to apply for flight training at BA (NOT to replace flight training but to show I am familiar with the Airbus).
You better have a backup evil slut.
Not calling you names, you called yourself one.
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby radi » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:23 pm

simbambim wrote in Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:53 pm:The problem is that even though the server is privately maintained, it is intended for public use. So an argument about "my house" is not valid.

You go to a soccer stadium. It's privately owned and certainly indented to be used by the public (provided you pay the admission). You don't play by the rules, they kick you out -- although you've paid. If that isn't obvious to you, read their terms and conditions.

Now remove the part where you've paid. You really expect you can demand anything at all?
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby simbambim » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:40 pm

radi wrote in Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:23 pm:You don't play by the rules, they kick you out

Were they flying into other players?
Were they harassing others on the chat?
Were they trolling in a controlled airport?
No?
Even when there was a troll at EDDF recently, it was not acted upon, AFAIK. Now two pilots are banned based on what?
I'll wait for a statement from the maintainer, though.
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby KL-666 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:46 pm

Radi,

It is not about demanding, but about ethics. And that is sometimes hard to find with the younger generation.

I am root at many servers and can get at many sensitive documents. Do i read them? No, i would not contemplate it. All i am interested in is stuff like document sizes. If i see a file name "Sacking xyz" i quickly look away so i do not see more of that and try to forget i have ever seen that.

The younger generation with their iPhones is used to throwing anything on the internet. They think any information they can get at is theirs to read. And if they own a server they can arbitrarily do as they like.

I strongly disapprove of such behaviour and would plea for some serious lessons in ethics at the schools for server administrators.

Kind regards, Vincent
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby radi » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:52 pm

It doesn't matter what someone did or did not do -- if they're not paying, and did not enter into a contract, they have no right to demand anything from another private individual or institution. And the maintainer is under no obligation to give a statement.
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby radi » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:57 pm

KL-666,

Where did I say it was right to kick out anyone? (If they actually got banned, which I don't know and I don't care). Where did I make any statements about ethics?
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby simbambim » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:03 pm

radi wrote in Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:52 pm:the maintainer is under no obligation to give a statement.

I'm afraid it's in his best interest to give a statement now, otherwise people are assuming the worst.
Last edited by simbambim on Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: **CENSORSHIP** of MPserver12!

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:16 pm

The thing is, I denounced the blocking of IAHM from mpserver12, and promptly got blocked myself.
And AFAIK evilslut is not on the forums, so how did he know I denounced IAHM's blocking?
Because someone told him.
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