redneck wrote:Sorry for giving crappy advice. Yes, 4 nm is rather short. It would recommend no shorter for being prepared to line up with the runway.
I think we're talking at cross purposes here: for a light aircraft, 4nm is way too long. In real life I fly a circuit with a final of less than 1nm. In fact in some circumstances (restricted due to terrain/buildings) my turn from downwind to base ends 100yds from the runway. That's with a flexwing microlight, but even in a light aircraft like a 172, final for a normal circuit shouldn't' be more than a mile or so.
I suspect you're talking about doing a circuit in an airline. In that case, I can easily imagine that a jet would need a much wider circuit, though I've never seen them do so. I'm sure it's much more difficult as well as the visibility is less.
I think the military have longer patterns as well, but they tend to have a continuous turn from downwind to final with no real base leg.
redneck wrote: I suggested the use of instruments as a secondary guide, assuming that he was already trying it visually. I guess I failed to make that clear, since glancing over your shoulder tends to be much more complicated in FG than a simple turn of the neck. When I tried flying patterns in airliners, I found it impossible to see the runway when glancing over your shoulder, as you wind up staring at a wall, which makes it imperative that you either have some sort of landmark as a visual reference, use a timer, or use instruments.
Yes, I can see that flying a pattern in an airliner would be very difficult indeed. One reason that circling approaches are often not allowed by airline policy. I must admit I've never tried it myself. Horses for courses
Merik - what aircraft are you trying to fly? That will give us a better idea of what you're trying to achieve, and techniques to help.
-Stuart