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Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damage.  

Postby property_tree » Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:48 pm

I am a pretty safe flier in the simulation (still default Cessna), which is pretty safe, since it's a simulation.
But I've seen videos and read about incidents where planes that got into spins, stalls, and the like... had to be pulled up gently, to not risk structural damage.

This makes sense, but I think I'm being too conservative.
I like to keep climb and descent rates at 500 ft/min, I don't do fast and tight turns on purpose, because I don't want my virtual Pilot or the machine to be too stressed.

But this also leaves me with doubts about landings especially. Since I don't go for dive bombs, I often have a really long descent.
This has caused me to crash on some smaller airfields, and while that's a skill issue for sure, but this 'cure' of going safe and slow in those cases were much worse than the problem.
A virtual punch in the guts or some stress on airfoils.

So. Realisimstically speaking. How much punishment can the Cessna withstand, roughly? Repairs are free in the game, and no hospital bill (simulated black/redout though!)
The vertical speed indicator goes to '20' after all, in either direction.

So maybe going full divebomber is okay too? Rocketship into the air?
If the recovery is smooth enough? Can she handle extreme banking changes? She sure seems nimble by nature.

Speaking 'Realisimstically' because reallife and model might not match 1:1 for damage, but still. I might just be too conservative.
If that is a good trait, then that's fine, too. But I also feel like I'm not giving the plane it's full credit.

Is there a rough guideline, perhaps "as long as it never goes more than 1.5Gs you're definetely fine"? Or something like that?
Edit:
Basically: Would a reallife pilot of this plane think I'm flying like a grandma?

Edit2:
....I just realized (by accident) that the ? key brings up a more detailed sheet than the 'about this plane' menu entry.
It lists a bunch of vectors velocities , which seem to be, at least partly related to my question/situation.
And I will look into them now.

...starting to feel a little silly with making threads and then randomly gaining some insight about it... I swear I'm not jumping the gun with these. I do wait and think about it first. Lol...

Okay, Va seems to be speed for maneuvering. So at 99kts one should not be too abrubt, yes?

How does vertical speed come into it, though?
If I, theoretically, fly slow enough, throttle wise, that only through a dive it would speed up, but stay below 99kts: Would that allow for some tight maneuvering? Like yanking the plane back up?
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Re: Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damag

Postby TheEagle » Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:10 pm

property_tree wrote in Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:48 pm:...starting to feel a little silly with making threads and then randomly gaining some insight about it... I swear I'm not jumping the gun with these. I do wait and think about it first. Lol...

Oh, there's really no reason to feel silly :) - I did the same thing at the start (and sometimes I still do it … :P )

As for the maneuvering, I think as long as you stay within the G limits (which are usually -1.5 to +3.2 for a Cessna) you're fine ! ;)
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Re: Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damag

Postby property_tree » Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:21 pm

Haha, that's reassuring, thanks.

And yeah, regarding rising and diving:
Snapping up that Airport Surfer Tim mentioned, TRPG, Montserrat, has already given me some medicine for this.
(I even managed to land...with utterly bad form, way too high and steep and that WITH glideslope shown, but ...I did land! 10 yards or so before the abyss lol)

Getting buffetted around, having palm trees everywhere, and only 500 meters of runway is curative indeed. It even is healing some of my 'traffic pattern' confusion and noobness.
Still way too impatient and not flying far enough on the downwing legs, but...again, getting better.

I'm really getting into this whole thing. It's really fun.
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Re: Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damag

Postby TheEagle » Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:56 pm

property_tree wrote in Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:21 pm:Still way too impatient and not flying far enough on the downwing legs, but...again, getting better.

You might need a bit faster aircraft, then ! :wink: C182S, P210N, PC-6, DHC-6 …
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Re: Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damag

Postby wlbragg » Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:19 pm

I the case of the c172p, we modeled the damage code to not trigger unless they are subjected to somewhat greater than published tolerances, best guess as to what we thought might start to be an issue for an aircraft of that type. I think we still are short of what it would really take in many of the circumstances. So I think in the case of the c172p, if you have damage turned on and your not breaking the aircraft with your maneuvers, your probably good to go. They're tough little aircraft.
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Re: Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damag

Postby TheEagle » Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:44 pm

TheEagle wrote in Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:10 pm:as long as you stay within the G limits (which are usually -1.5 to +3.2 for a Cessna) you're fine ! ;)

Yeah, I forgot to mention that the design loads are actually 150% of that - so the aircraft was designed to withstand -2.25 to +4.8 - but then there's still a little margin to the load where the wings actually fall off, which then are probably -2.5 to +5 ! :) And I cannot imagine how to pull 5 G's in an aircraft that barely goes 150 kts fast ! ;)
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Re: Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damag

Postby property_tree » Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:25 pm

Very interesting input, thanks!
I did manage to rip off a wing before, though, and get a blackout...but that was done via a dive.
(Also flew a beaver for the first time yesterday, was easy in that one...fun times!)

But yeah, during normal flight, unless I jerk the mouse 'involuntarily' (like trying to look around without pressing right mouse, or being in the wrong mode)
I don't think I've seen anything about 2G.

Certainly opens up more possibilities that way.
And as for the faster planes, haha, that sure is a solution too.

Still have been drilling myself to let the plane do the laps/patterns, aka patience.
It's the fuel that was the seed of quite a few of my unsureness (like the thread I made about traffic patterns)
"Why waste fuel, which pollutes, just try and land right now!"
But...I guess it's just part of aviation. Too low fuel would be an emergency (probably), so a buffer that is used for alignment, overview, traffic order, etc...is probably just a part of life of it all.
No need to pinch it, even virtually.
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Re: Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damag

Postby Ysop » Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:58 pm

It might be an idea to go through the curriculum to obtain a private pilot licence.

Then you end up with 40-45 hours and have all basic topics covered.
Also fun to write a logbook to document the progress.
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Re: Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damag

Postby property_tree » Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:07 pm

Ooh, that is a great idea, thanks!
Do you have a material recommendation?

A casual Google search brought up "The Pilot's Manual - Private Pilot Syllabus", by Jackie Spanitz
And "Meets Part 61 and 141 Requirements" ...which does not mean much to me right now, lol.
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Re: Overcoming banking and diving shyness, GForces and Damag

Postby Ysop » Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:55 pm

Of course it is possible to dive into the regulations....

Quick summary for example here: https://inflightpilottraining.com/2022/ ... checklist/

Don't forget to fill in your logbook!
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