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Weird Stuff This Morning

Controlling your aircraft, using the autopilot etc.

Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:47 pm

Thank you for your detailed explanation which I understand. What you haven't said and which is all I have been asking is, where/how are these activated. Ie what makes AI craft different from the FG craft. If they are in terrasync and I have terrasync automatically updating why have I never seen these. I fly in and out of Gatwick and other European cities that appear on the list of ground nets.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:59 pm

Robertfm wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:47 pm:Thank you for your detailed explanation which I understand.

you're welcome... there is a bit more info but i just don't recall it all right now...

Robertfm wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:47 pm:What you haven't said and which is all I have been asking is, where/how are these activated.

i'm sorry... i got lost in the details... you don't activate/deactivate the ground nets... they are in FG and they are loaded for all airports that have them...

Robertfm wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:47 pm:Ie what makes AI craft different from the FG craft.

uhh... what? please define "AI craft" and "FG craft" as you are using those terms...
i will guess that you mean "AI craft" to be those controlled by the traffic manager and "FG craft" to mean those controlled by humans...

Robertfm wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:47 pm:If they are in terrasync and I have terrasync automatically updating why have I never seen these.

you don't/won't see them... they are simply data inside the simulator... the closest you can get to seeing (at least part of) them is if you use the AI ATC in the sim and turn on the green taxi path line to follow from the parking space to the end of the runway... AI ATC instead of using a human ATC over multiplayer which has no way to show you the route to the runway or parking space anyway... they can tell you the route to take but not draw it on the screen...

Robertfm wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:47 pm:I fly in and out of Gatwick and other European cities that appear on the list of ground nets.

you've lost me here, too... i don't know what "list of ground nets" you are speaking of... is that the one in the wiki that lists only 90 ground nets?
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:14 pm

So I have to activate AI ATC . OK. Yes there is that list of 90 but also there is another here https://github.com/mherweg/Airports but the detail says they are not in Terrasync, although this of course may have changed. So do you have to start with plane in a parking area for this to work.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:29 pm

Robertfm wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:14 pm:So I have to activate AI ATC . OK.

yes, if you want to try it... i used to use it but drifted on to other things in FG and have forgotten how i brought it up... again, it is very simplistic and easy to break... don't close the dialog when it comes up and you have to select the options in the proper order as well as sending back the proper responses... i'll try to find some time to go in and see if i can do it again like i used to do...

Robertfm wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:14 pm:So do you have to start with plane in a parking area for this to work.

yes...

Robertfm wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:14 pm:Yes there is that list of 90 but also there is another here https://github.com/mherweg/Airports but the detail says they are not in Terrasync, although this of course may have changed.

i'm not sure but i think those are the ones that were mass imported back in like 2017... i have them here and have used them but have not compared them with what is currently in TS...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:40 pm

Simplistic but not that user friendly by the sounds of it. Thanks for your time and explanations.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:24 pm

as i said, it is very basic and i don't know that any more work has been actually done on it in the last 7 or 8 years...

start here for the basics listed in the first post... https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12849

i basically described them from memory and i think this is actually the first time i've even seen the above topic... i found the option in the general sim help menu and gave it a try one day when i was at KSFO... it worked well enough and got me to the runway where it seems to stop... i've just tried it at KRDU before finding the above and it got me to the runway in the UFO... the last option i clicked was "holding short at runway blah" and i'm still waiting so this is, i think, where it currently ends and you take over... i'm kinda thinking about digging into the source code to see where this all originates from and seeing if i can figure out what it is doing at each stage... i think there are random wait times used between each comm sequence but that's just a guess... anyway, it is a beginning that one can use if they want some sort of scripted ATC interaction without having to use MP and other humans ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:37 pm

I take the short code shown in the link is not required as it appears to be both plane & airport specific. The ' & v & 2 is what is needed to launch it at any airport with ground net.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:44 pm

uhh... start by opening the AI ATC dialog with the "'" (apostrophy) key... that's all that's needed...

like normal, you use the v/V keys to change views so you can see what is around you from outside the craft... you don't have to do this if you don't want to... i use it to find the green path line, though... once i know where it is in relation to my cockpit view, i switch back to the cockpit and carry on but even that's not necessary depending on the craft and what needs to be done...

the '2' or clicking on it simply turns on the green/orange/red arrow/bar thing i spoke of that shows you the path to follow to each point of the taxi route...

everything else follows the scripted options in '1' when you click on them or press the '1' key... i've never tried using the '1' or '2' keys when the dialog is running, though... i always click them with my mouse...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:47 pm

Right I'll give it a go tomorrow. If that is all there is too it then even I should be able to do it
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:37 pm

That's not going to help much since the whole reason that you are seeing aircraft parking on runways is that that airport doesn't have any groundnet at all: they don't know how to get to the apron from the runway. So you won't see any green line.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:03 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:44 pm:uhh... start by opening the AI ATC dialog with the "'" (apostrophy) key... that's all that's needed...

like normal, you use the v/V keys to change views so you can see what is around you from outside the craft... you don't have to do this if you don't want to... i use it to find the green path line, though... once i know where it is in relation to my cockpit view, i switch back to the cockpit and carry on but even that's not necessary depending on the craft and what needs to be done...

the '2' or clicking on it simply turns on the green/orange/red arrow/bar thing i spoke of that shows you the path to follow to each point of the taxi route...

everything else follows the scripted options in '1' when you click on them or press the '1' key... i've never tried using the '1' or '2' keys when the dialog is running, though... i always click them with my mouse...


Well tried it and it worked like a charm. As you said though it took me to the apron in a queue and we just sat there. There was a Virgin jet facing the wrong way on the runway stopping any movement. Anyway thanks so much for your patience. At least I know how it works now. Who'd have thought a simple ' was all that was needed.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:10 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:37 pm:That's not going to help much since the whole reason that you are seeing aircraft parking on runways is that that airport doesn't have any groundnet at all: they don't know how to get to the apron from the runway. So you won't see any green line.


Agreed but once everyone kept talking ground nets and making it incredibly complicated sounding knowing that it is so easy when I am told all that is needed is an ' at the enabled airports I wanted to give it a go. You are right of course it doesn't solve the original problem. But switching off AI and switching it back on does.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Thorsten » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:04 am

Agreed but once everyone kept talking ground nets and making it incredibly complicated sounding knowing that it is so easy when I am told all that is needed is an ' at the enabled airports I wanted to give it a go.


I'm not sure what the 'it' is you want to give a go here, but you asked

but how do they end up abandoned on the runway


The answer to that one has to do with lack of groundnets, and that was the point where the term appeared in the discussion. People 'kept talking about ground nets' to answer your question - and whatever 'it' you can now accomplish, you didn't ask it initially and I kind of doubt 'it' solves planes being abandoned on the runway.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:46 am

legoboyvdlp has already said that. As for Ground Nets, yes I did ask after it was mentioned. My point was had someone said, this 1. Set your aircraft to parking area 2. If there is a ground net when you press ' the permission to start engine & taxing will be activated. A simple explanation.

wkitty42 provided a detailed understandable explanation and how to activate the facility.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:04 pm

That won't solve planes being on the runway if there's no groundnet, though.
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