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Weird Stuff This Morning

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Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:01 pm

I started my flight as usual at EGPE. My plane unsually was slightly off the runway but facing correct direct however stationary in the middle of the runway was an Easy Jet. I waited 3 or 4 minutes and it hadn't moved. So I took off avoiding it. A few minutes late I noticed it had taken off ( I use PHi map). I was going a short distance to EGPD airport and on a approach 3/4 of the way along the runway was another plane 90 degrees across runway. I did a screen capture of this after I landed and turned round. Now I have seen lots of planes coming or going but not this sort of behaviour. Whilst stationary at Edinburgh two jets landed literally no more than 100 metres apart. Is this just more glitches.

Image
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:36 pm

Turn off AI traffic if you don't like seeing things like that!
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:42 pm

I don't mind seeing other planes, but how do they end up abandoned on the runway
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:00 pm

There's no ground network at that airport so they don't know where to go.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:19 pm

There are taxi ways at both airports.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Thorsten » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:12 pm

They don't know that without a ground network.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:32 pm

If you mean a plan of the airport with taxi ways there is a detailed one for both airports and every other airport on FGMap.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Thorsten » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:44 pm

Obviously we mean a ground network, not a plan of the airport.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby V12 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:39 pm

Robertfm :
Airport plan is graphical representation of taxiways, aprons, runways, connections etc. for users. Groundnet is "mathematical" model of that airport for AI simulation.
Fly high, fly fast - fly Concorde !
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:53 pm

So where are these in FG. I use all the various MAPs available in FG and Skyvector. Is there something I haven't found yet.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby gooneybird » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:11 pm

For more information about ground network and traffic files see here http://wiki.flightgear.org/Interactive_traffic
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:26 pm

Interesting article but it doesn't tell how to make the feature active. I don't think I missed that bit.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Alant » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:17 am

Someone needs to generate a groundnet.
How about contributing to FG and doing it yourself.
Google Flightgear groundnet, or going to the link that gooneybird posted should get you started.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby Robertfm » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:30 am

I am honest enough to acknowledge I don't have the skills to do all this techie stuff. Even reading the articles just blows my mind. If there are 90 Groundnets according to that article, there must be a way of accessing them. I saw another FG article that showed a project where groundnets would be in Phi, that was 2015 and showed an example but I can't find any link in Phi which I use daily as my flight tracker . As for Googling it. When I don't understand something I do Google it and then read the various Flightgear links. Then I post when I can't find the answer.

As it happens I didn't bring up groundnets, I merely asked why I had experienced planes abandoned on runways and planes landing within metres of each other not the 5nm spacing to avoid turbulence.

I use FG because of it's relative simplicity compared to FSX/Xplane. I fly FG for relaxation and admire the skills of those who produce the various aspects but I am sure I am not alone in simply wanting to fly.
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Re: Weird Stuff This Morning

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:14 pm

ok, i'll try to explain this briefly... very briefly... it is sunday and i've no c0ffee which may be a good thing...

  1. ground nets:
    1. *.groundnet.xml files are defined using various tools... taxidraw is one such (old/outdated) tool...

    2. there are currently almost 8000 (7978) ground net xml files in terrasync... most of them were generated
      by a tool... yes, there are some flaws in them and they are being slowly replaced/fixed as the ad-hoc AI
      craft team finds them when working on the traffic files for the AI craft in the sim... for comparison on the
      number of ground nets, there are 28735 airports defined in terrasync... that's about 27% of the defined
      airports with ground nets defined for them...

    3. ground nets are made of parking spaces, taxiway nodes, and taxiway segments...

    4. parking spaces contain the long/lat coordinates of the space, the heading parked craft are to be facing,
      the radius of the space (to limit craft size in the space) and other related data...

    5. taxiway nodes are points along the taxiway used to link paths or trigger certain actions...

    6. taxiway segments are the actual connections between the nodes of the taxiway...

    7. the traffic manager for AI craft uses the ground net data to generate a path to/from the end of a runway
      and a parking space...

    8. if there is no ground net for an airport, the traffic manager simply puts/moves the craft to the center of
      the airport no matter what is there...

    9. ground nets can also be used by the pilot of a simulated craft when they invoke the automated AI ATC
      which will give the pilot startup clearance and other information needed for the pilot to take off from the
      proper runway... there is an option in the ATC menu to turn on the ground net path the craft is to follow...
      when this is turned on, the path is a bright green line...

      i forget if the key to enable this option is ' = or ` but it is something like one of those... it must be initiated
      and the instructions followed in an exact manner or it will get confused...

  2. AI craft:
    1. AI craft are controlled by the traffic manager... this is a very simple routine... it assumes that all AI craft
      takeoff on time and doesn't care about other craft, for the most part...

    2. some part of the traffic manager will pause AI craft for other AI craft to cross in front of them or to enter
      the taxiway in front of them... it does not care about manually piloted craft...

    3. AI craft takeoff from their originating airports and make their way to their destination airport... each is its
      own entity and has no clue about others around it... it follows the traffic manager generated flight plan
      exactly as laid out... if the timing of its arrival means that it will land with/in/behind another craft, it doesn't
      care...

    4. AI craft are not marked "HOT" which means they will travel through other scenery items without breaking
      or causing damage... yes, they will fly through mountains, other AI craft, and your simulated craft...
i'll stop there for now... if there are questions, ask and i will try to answer them... it has been almost two years since i dug into the traffic manager code and added a lot of debugging statements so i could try to figure out what it was doing... that may all be for naught, though, as the original developer, durk, is apparently working on a whole new AI traffic design which may or may not appear soon-ish...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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