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Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Controlling your aircraft, using the autopilot etc.

Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby SurferTim » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:07 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:46 pm:
SurferTim wrote in Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:14 am:I do not believe there is a "generic AP".

that's the F11 one in the sim...

SurferTim wrote in Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:14 am:Every a/c I have flown has a different setup for control. I can't even use the autopilot interface on all a/c. It fails to adjust the heading and altitude on the DHC6.

because they're not tied into the generic AP properly or completely... some are, many are not...

Like I said, they are most likely different than identical.

The F11 display is the same as selecting "autopilot" in the menu bar.
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby Octal450 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:49 pm

Wkitty,
Tying into or using the generic autopilot is a terrible ideas as it's horrific. I imagine aircraft designers avoided it specifically because it would only reduce realism and introduce bugs. (As I do. Every one my planes kicks generic A/P away for everything)

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby Robertfm » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:21 pm

As I said trying to use AP on right seat is not easy or quick if you have to change view. Of course the most effective way of using AP is if it was on the left side of the cockpit, or could be dragged out or a standalone Saitek AP would work. None of these seems to be the case.
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby wkitty42 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:31 pm

SurferTim wrote in Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:07 pm:
wkitty42 wrote in Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:46 pm:because they're not tied into the generic AP properly or completely... some are, many are not...

Like I said, they are most likely different than identical.

right, they can be all the different they want but they can still tie into the existing dialogue so they can still be used... like the c172p will following the heading bug but nothing else... it could follow the altitude setting as well as the speed setting, too... i know it cannot follow the route plan so i'm not even looking at that...

SurferTim wrote in Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:14 am:The F11 display is the same as selecting "autopilot" in the menu bar.

that's why i wrote about it "being the F11 one" above in response to your statement of no generic AP ;)

@octal, yeah, i know... the painful part is having to move the view so you can see that computer terminal and figure out how to input the necessary data to make it work... some of us like being able to open a quick 2D dialogue with one hit of the F11 key where we can type stuff in from the keyboard much faster than mousing about to do it... i'm not talking about route plans... only speed, direction and elevation... then we can control the craft from there as needed... but that's ok... some folks want to stick to some sort of ultra-realistic presentation which is fine, too... it just means that fewer folks will use the craft because the difficulty level is higher than they're willing to deal with :shrug:
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby Octal450 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:58 pm

So why not just make a panel then for it?
ALL my own Autopilots have a custom dialog that match the cockpit for that reason. (see IT-AUTOFLIGHT for an example, but I match dialogs to cockpits in custom installs)

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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby tdammers » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:17 pm

"The F11 one" can be the default autopilot (which sucks, but if the aircraft designer didn't do anything special, this is what you get), or it can be whatever the aircraft designer put in its place. So even if you press F11 and some dialog comes up, that doesn't mean it's the default one. All the developed aircraft of which the real-world counterpart has an autopilot have that autopilot modeled in FG (though some better than others), and the vast majority puts its control dialog in the same place where the default one would be (the Autopilot menu / F11).

Then, to answer the original question. I'm not super familiar with this particular aircraft, however, it's quite common for an autopilot to have a "master" switch (typically labeled "A/P" or something like that), plus a number of switches for selecting and manipulating lateral (direction) and vertical (altitude) modes. Disengaging a lateral mode will typically not disengage the autopilot entirely, but rather put it in some uncontroversial lateral mode, usually "hold current heading" or "keep wings level". Needless to say, this means that when you disengage the HDG mode (which would make the autopilot attempt to turn onto the selected heading), you don't drop into "manual control" mode, but into "wings level". Find the master switch and disengage it to regain manual control. There's often also a separate "autopilot disconnect" switch, which is intended to just disable any and all autopilot activity immediately, typically used when the autopilot does something you didn't expect it to do - in such a situation, the pilots are trained to disconnect the autopilot, manually maneuver the aircraft into a stable, safe situation, and *then* figure out what happened. A crude kill switch for when there's no time to ask questions or do troubleshooting.

And one final nitpick: "VFR" and "IFR" says nothing about whether you're using the autopilot or not; it just says which set of rules apply to your flight (e.g., under VFR you may only fly when the weather conditions allow you to navigate on visual cues alone). People use autopilots, and even VOR or GPS navigation, under VFR all the time, and people also perform IFR flights manually.
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby dilbert » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:44 pm

I extensively use and prefer the generic option with the Navion; and it has performed flawlessly for me, including
release. I have also successfully used the Bendix/King, now being familiar with it's particular anomaly.

The KAP 140 Dual Axis Autopilot Quick Reference Card says the following:

Intercept/Track NAV1 and Hold Current Altitude
1 Press and hold the AP button until the autopilot engages.
2 Verify that the autopilot is in ROL and VS (default modes)
3 Press NAV button to couple with the NAV1 OBS.
4. Press the ALT button to hold the current altitude.

Unfortunately, the above procedure doesn't work for intercepting and tracking VOR or ILS radials on the Navion Bendix/King. Instead, the AP locks on the current heading. :(

Fortunately, the following procedure does work:

1 Press and Hold the AP button until the autopilot engages .
2.Verify that the autopilot is in ROL and VS (default modes)
3.Press HDG button
4.Press NAV button to couple with the NAV1 OBS.
5 Press the ALT to hold current altitude.

Don't know the reason for this anomaly; but the autopilot intercepts and tracks fine when the second procedure is
employed. :)

Kind Regards
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby Robertfm » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:32 pm

I didn't have a problem as such with the Nvion AP except it not being directly in front so was difficult to alter in flight to change heading etc & altitude, Using the dial heading bug works fine but does take longer than a dial would ( real one that is).
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby dilbert » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:29 pm

If you hold the left mouse button down and click the right-hand knob on the CDI, you can rapidly adjust the heading bug. Releasing the button stops bug rotation. Clicking the right side of the knob causes clockwise rotation, clicking the left side causes counterclockwise rotation. :)
Last edited by dilbert on Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby Robertfm » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:54 pm

Thanks for that. On another functionality issue, is there anyway to alter sensitivity in the axis. I am mainly talking of a Saitek Quadrant. I use one of the sliders for rudder control and depending on the plane it can be difficult to control, on others it's fine. I was thinking if I could reduce it's sensitivity then it may work better. In FSX & Xplane there are sensitivity settings for most things
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby dilbert » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:33 pm

I have a couple of Saitek Madcat sticks. They lack sensitivity control, as far as I know.. Am not familiar with a Saitek Quadrant; hopefully someone else can help you there. Kind Regards
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby Robertfm » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:47 pm

Checked out you HDG suggestion works really well thanks. As for sensitivity I suspect it would need to be changed in browser properties in debug but to what I have no idea and don't want to mess things up.
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby dilbert » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:20 pm

Note a good deal of criticism of the generic AP. I've never had a problem with it, and find it easy to use. Using it in conjunction with the Route Manager is real nice. It accommodates more waypoints than the KNS 80. In entering waypoints it's easy to specify not only the waypoints, but establish offsets and altitudes, as well. When you activate, it also establishes additional fixes for approaching airports or a destination ILS, if you enter such as a waypoint.
Contrary to the recommended 500' minimum for engagement, I activate Flight Director with the autopilot while still on the departure runway, and fly a complete cross country voyage, with no control inputs other than raising and lowering gear and flaps and adjusting throttle for Takeoff climb, cruise and glide. On ILS approaches I frequently leave NAV1 CDI heading engaged until touchdown, while not disengaging NAV 1 glide path until over the numbers. Some will say it's not realistic, being menu driven. True. But turning knobs and buttons
with a mouse isn't either. The Bendix/King came into being a year before I had my last real world flight. I've
learned to use it, though on the Navion, I'm having a problem with the KNS 80 VOR RNAV function. With arrival of GPS, it's pretty much obsolete anyway-unless you have an older aircraft already equipped with one. Cheers
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby Octal450 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:59 pm

Sorry, but maybe you just happen to flying one plane that happens to work okish on. I guess it also depends on what is acceptable to you. Generic A/P is overshoot hell because whoever made it didn't understand how to use integrators properly. But I've yet to find a realistic flying plane that it does well on - and also from an engineering point of view there are so many problems and flaws that I can't even begin to understand it.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Auto Pilot Settings Interface.

Postby dilbert » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:00 pm

Not just one plane, Josh. I've used it extensively with Aermacchi MB339 and Culp's T2C. Obviously, it's not suitable for planes with high approach speeds and a large turning radius. For fun I've tried using it with the F-15C, using a 200K pattern speed. With tight Route Manager patterns, it will easily break out and fly to China. On ILS final you
have to watch speed and mind throttle like a hawk, or you'll be at 160 Knots sinking into a progressive stall in a heartbeat. {post script edit: It was the F 104 not the F 15-sorry for the confusion}

That said, there are an abundance of FG aircraft that can fly approaches at a 120 Knots or less, that don't have custom autopilots, and which can use the generic autopilot and route manager to good advantage. So, I hate for those who fly low and slow to get the idea it's a bad system.

Regarding flight like real aircraft:
I was no jet jockey in my day-nearly 60 years ago, but did fly the T34, SNJ, SNB, T28, S2F and P5M. The FG Super Navion flies a lot like the T34s I once flew in the late 1950s, which is one reason why, in my dotage, I enjoy using it.

Kind Regards
Last edited by dilbert on Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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