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Missing Seaports

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Missing Seaports

Postby Kafovofa » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:26 am

I'd like to spawn my seaplane in several lakes in Idaho, but the seaports are missing. How would I go about adding S76 and S96?
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby wlbragg » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:42 am

Which airplane?

If it is the J3Cub/PA-18 or C172P add the new entries to the bottom of Systems/mooring-pos.xml

It will look something like this only with your completed descriptions.

Code: Select all
<!-- Brooks Seaplane Base S76, Coeur D Alene Airport KCOE Idaho -->
    <seaplane n="60">
        <airport-id type="string">KCOE</airport-id>
        <latitude-deg type="double">47.659</latitude-deg>
        <longitude-deg type="double">-116.766</longitude-deg>
        <heading-deg type="double">140.0</heading-deg>
    </seaplane>

    <!-- Lake Pend Orielle S96, Idaho -->
    <seaplane n="61>
        <airport-id type="string">S96</airport-id>
        <latitude-deg type="double">48.216944</latitude-deg>
        <longitude-deg type="double">-116.367778</longitude-deg>
        <heading-deg type="double">245.0</heading-deg>
    </seaplane>
Last edited by wlbragg on Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby wlbragg » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:02 am

After looking a little closer, there is no airport in FlightGear with either of those ID's. The way it works is you need a valid airport ICAO that is in FlightGear that is close by, then you can add the example entries only using the "valid" ICAO designation.
I think the lat/lon I supplied is correct, but I didn't verify it. You need to have a valid lat/lon position where the float plane is supposed to spawn.

So in this case you have to improvise. See how I did the first one... I used KCOE which may or may not be close by. to S76.

So the first one gets you close to the correct seaport if you start at KCOE, but I don't know how close to S76 KCOE is. Also the coords in the charts puts you on land in the city, so I changes them slightly to get you in the lake.

The second entry, you need to find a valid ICAO designated airport close by to S96 and verify the coords I used actually place you in the water.

You will change
Code: Select all
<airport-id type="string">S96</airport-id>

To
Code: Select all
<airport-id type="string">VALID ICAO NEARBY</airport-id>
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby Kafovofa » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:39 am

KCOE is the closest strip off the top of my memory. I'm using KSZT for the other strip. Can this XML be easily added to other aircraft like the DHC-3? If so that's what I'm doing until they show up in the game.

The longitude from the site provided was the wrong sign. After reversing that and getting out of Russia, I was able to spawn in downtown CDA and pointing into the shore near Sandpoint, so it won't take much positioning from there.
Image
Image
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby wlbragg » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:40 pm

These are the entries I came up with,

Code: Select all
<!-- Brooks Seaplane Base S76, Coeur D Alene Airport KCOE Idaho -->
    <seaplane n="60">
        <airport-id type="string">KCOE</airport-id>
        <latitude-deg type="double">47.659</latitude-deg>
        <longitude-deg type="double">-116.766</longitude-deg>
        <heading-deg type="double">140.0</heading-deg>
    </seaplane>

    <!-- Lake Pend Orielle S96, KSZT Idaho -->
    <seaplane n="61">
        <airport-id type="string">KSZT</airport-id>
        <latitude-deg type="double">48.216944</latitude-deg>
        <longitude-deg type="double">-116.367778</longitude-deg>
        <heading-deg type="double">345.0</heading-deg>
    </seaplane>
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby wlbragg » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:43 pm

wlbragg wrote in Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:40 pm:These are the entries I came up with,

Code: Select all
<!-- Brooks Seaplane Base S76, Coeur D Alene Airport KCOE Idaho -->
    <seaplane n="60">
        <airport-id type="string">KCOE</airport-id>
        <latitude-deg type="double">47.659</latitude-deg>
        <longitude-deg type="double">-116.766</longitude-deg>
        <heading-deg type="double">140.0</heading-deg>
    </seaplane>

    <!-- Lake Pend Orielle S96, KSZT Idaho -->
    <seaplane n="61">
        <airport-id type="string">KSZT</airport-id>
        <latitude-deg type="double">48.216944</latitude-deg>
        <longitude-deg type="double">-116.367778</longitude-deg>
        <heading-deg type="double">345.0</heading-deg>
    </seaplane>


If you want to give me what you have I can add it to both the cub and c172p in their respective repositories. Or I can go with these?
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby Kafovofa » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:19 am

This is what I came up with.

Code: Select all
<!-- Brooks Seaplane Base S76, Coeur D Alene Airport KCOE Idaho -->
    <seaplane n="48">
        <airport-id type="string">KCOE</airport-id>
        <latitude-deg type="double">47.66</latitude-deg>
        <longitude-deg type="double">-116.79</longitude-deg>
        <heading-deg type="double">180.0</heading-deg>
    </seaplane>

    <!-- Lake Pend Orielle S96, Idaho -->
    <seaplane n="49">
        <airport-id type="string">KSZT</airport-id>
        <latitude-deg type="double">48.216944</latitude-deg>
        <longitude-deg type="double">-116.367778</longitude-deg>
        <heading-deg type="double">0.0</heading-deg>
    </seaplane>
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby Kafovofa » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:24 am

I should add, a noteworthy seaplane outfit flies tours over lake Coeur d'Alene with a C-206 and a DHC-2, so it would be ideal to be able to spawn the DHC-2 at S76. As seen on their website here https://brooks-seaplane.com/aircraft/
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:47 pm

@wlbragg: perhaps this list could be made generic (if need be) and put into fgdata so it is centralized and available to any water based craft that might be able to use it??
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby Kafovofa » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:12 am

wkitty42 wrote in Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:47 pm:@wlbragg: perhaps this list could be made generic (if need be) and put into fgdata so it is centralized and available to any water based craft that might be able to use it??


If it's possible to have these seaports added by their correct identifier down the road so they can be properly found in the route manager, this might be work that's just going to be repeated. I'm not exactly sure how challenging or feasible that is, though. As far as I can tell, it'd be hard for someone playing the game to guess that these airports are associated with these seaports from the QT launcher or anywhere else using the mooring position method we've got now. I'm afraid nobody will even see that they have been added there without going into the XML, having a really really good hunch, or the plane developer creating a new dialog to list the associations in game. Getting them represented in the route manager as actual seaports would probably save us from creating a new dialog just to display the mooring positions that are available for each seaplane. If it's possible to get the mooring data into fgdata, perhaps a new mooring position dialog can be added in a similar way with minimal effort for the time being so that these additions aren't futile and invisible to those that aren't reading the XML file or this thread. Just a couple of thoughts before anyone works too hard, unless there's already a dialog or something that I'm not familiar with, yet.
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby wlbragg » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:28 pm

Yep, lots of good ideas. I adapted the lists currently in the c172p and j3cub from older code and applications to other aircraft because it was there and convenient way to get more functionality for the float capabilities of the aircrafts. I didn't design any of the underlying system. As we just saw in this latest addition, unless these water based runways are added to apt.dat it's still going to be a workaround. I've never used Route Manager, does it pull from apt.dat? If so then that may be key, someone needs to add the water based runways to apt.dat. I think that is really all that is missing. I just tested that theory using 0FD6. I think that is a stand alone sea plane runway that is in apt.dat. I was able to spawn directly in the water without any settings pertaining to the mooring code. In other words I could startup there with standard gear if I so wanted to, but if spawning with floats, it worked fine.
With that said it seems to me that the sea port list and current system as adapted to the Cub and Cessna is useful for the following...

1) Spawning to a water runway where the runway is not in apt.dat by linking the missing runway or airport to an adjacent airport that is in apt.dat,
2) Being able to spawn on a designated water runway after initially starting at a land based airport that includes a water based runway.

I believe in my research while adapting the current system I came across a dialog that indeed listed all the available seaplane bases in the list. That dialog could be added to the main UI by a water capable aircraft.

So I think, missing water based airport runways and water based runways attached to land based airports just need to be added to apt.dat and possibly developers add a/the UI that lists the available seaports as well as favorite landing coordinates of their favorite water bodies that are not associated with any airport using the current list as a starting point. You could even categorize the runways/locations in that list and UI by official airport/runways or gps coordinates.
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby Kafovofa » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:07 am

Ok, fortunately, seaplane bases aren't too complicated since they don't have tarmac. It's not hard to add them to apt.dat. I'm starting to figure it out.

Image

Adding S76 to apt.dat allows seaplanes without the mooring system and dialogs to be spawned there and allows for the route manager to use it in the plotting of courses making the mooring code redundant. Once I have it a little better positioned and have a couple of the other missing seaports added in, I'll put together some screenshots explaining hot to add more here, and submit the changes.
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby wlbragg » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:43 pm

Thanks for that confirmation about adding the legit water runways to apt.dat. If the entire list of "official" water runways are in apt.dat then I suppose the mooring code would only really be useful for tracking a list of "unofficial" water locations and the "Go Now" feature to go to those unofficial water locations. Because technically the "Go to Airport" should be capable of taking you to any official water ports.
Unless or until someone takes the time to insure the legit water ports are in apt.dat then the official airport ports in the list still serves a purpose.
Thanks again for verifying some of this stuff.
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:25 pm

Notice we can't do modifications to global apt.dat -- ie this can only be as a custom scenery or local modification. For this to be done as standard for every new download of FlightGear you would want to request the addition of the airport's to the X-Plane gateway and that will mean once world scenery is finally regenerated then this will be included.

That is essentially, to add this to FlightGear for everyone you need to go through the XPlane Gateway but meantime it can be distributed as a custom scenery ;)
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Re: Missing Seaports

Postby wlbragg » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:51 pm

Notice we can't do modifications to global apt.dat


Why is that if there is no change to physical airport layout? Keep in mind these are water runways that require no physical scenery changes.
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