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172 spinning to the left

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172 spinning to the left

Postby Giungla Bob » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:44 pm

I am new to this simulation. I can't get the Cessna 172 to stop spinning to the left even using the rudder controls. I am using a Logitech Attack 3 Joystick. Can't even get off the ground.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby tdammers » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:29 am

This is "by design" - as a single-engine prop aircraft, the C172P has a tendency to bank and yaw during takeoff, due to torque effect (prop blades pushing against air at a high angle of attack, producing a banking momentum) and P factor (prop blades on one side of the prop producing more thrust than on the other due to differences in angle of attack, producing a yawing momentum). In order to maintain straight and level flight during / after takeoff, you need to input some rudder and aileron. This is true for the real aircraft as well, though from what I gather, the effect is a bit too strong in the FG simulation. It takes some time to master, but it can most definitely be done, at least with a joystick/yoke and proper rudder controls.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby ORZMUD » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:33 pm

It takes time, keep practicing.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby wlbragg » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:35 pm

though from what I gather, the effect is a bit too strong in the FG simulation


From what I understand that is really subjective and I have heard it both ways by pilots experienced in the c172p. It also would make a huge difference how this pull affected you if you were using a yoke and rudder peddle system on your simulator and how it was calibrated.
I fly the c172p all the time with the mouse as the control and I have no problem keeping it straight.
If your not using auto coordination then maybe it is harder to keep straight, although I don't think I am.
Last edited by wlbragg on Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby ORZMUD » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:14 pm

After many years of flying FGFS with mouse and joystick I decided to get the Saitek Yoke+ Throttle and Rudder pedals.
Let me just say that it is a WORLD of difference experiencing the simulator with such devices and in the context, way easier to control the airplane.

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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby tdammers » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:59 am

wlbragg wrote in Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:35 pm:
though from what I gather, the effect is a bit too strong in the FG simulation


From what I understand that is really subjective and I have heard it both ways by pilots experienced in the c172p. It also would make a huge difference how this pull affected you if you were using a yoke and rudder peddle system on your simulator and how it was calibrated.
I fly the c172p all the time with the mouse as the control and I have no problem keeping it straight.
If your not using auto coordination then maybe it is harder to keep straight, although I don't think I am.


I think the main reason for this is the lack of sensory feedback. In the real aircraft, you can feel acceleration forces as well as aerodynamic forces on the controls, which is a lot more precise for the kind of tiny corrections you need to make than the hand-eye coordination you have to rely on in FG. FG also lacks proper 3D vision; while this isn't relevant at cruise altitude (beyond a few thousand feet, all distances blur into "far away"), but for accurately eyeballing your trajectory over the runway during the takeoff roll, it does make a difference (which is also a reason why it's difficult to judge exactly when to flare in FG - you simply can't tell visually how far away the ground is).
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby dilbert » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:02 am

Try the PA-24. If it pulls more than a little to the left, it's the stick, not the plane.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby sim » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:33 am

Opposite problem in this video stick and rudder controls are deliberately mishandled to get the Cessna 172 to spin!
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby walakaka » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:22 pm

Hi!!

Sometimes the plane is easy to control with the rudder. Other times, I'm unable to keep it straight (too much input right or left).
Is this a coordination issue?

Feels like I'm doing the same thing. But when I restart the simulation, it normally works fine for the first takeoff (tutorial). Following, that it normally becomes very difficult to control the plane.

Help!

Regards
Walakaka!
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby wlbragg » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:06 pm

Is this a coordination issue?


Well it shouldn't be inconsistent and I've never seen any issue in this manner.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby D-ECHO » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:21 am

Unfortunately, it's difficult to interpret what you're saying from this little of text.

One thing that came to my mind is whether your airspeed changes along with the difficulty to control the aircraft. At low speed, the aircraft reacts very differently to control inputs due to less effectiveness of the aerodynamic surfaces and, when you are close to a stall, possibly also due to a single-wing stall leading to a spiral dive or spins.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby tom_nl » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:41 pm

Have you got real world weather turned on? Where I fly from usually (EHKD De Kooy Airfield) it can get very windy, which can make crosswind takeoffs and landings tricky even with the Logitech rudder and yoke combo (which once you've learned to live with the dead zones, I agree makes a world of difference).

Try turning off real world weather and selecting calm conditions? See if it's easier.

I used to fly for real many years ago (motor and conventional gliders), and i'm sure in some respects flying the real thing was easier because of the presence of physical feedback! And regarding the 3D, I still can't get my turns on to final quite right...

Tom
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby dilbert » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:29 pm

I just flew the 172 on one of my systems-in this case an intel I3 with Intel on board Graphics, running on Windows10. I was using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro stick. My flightgear version was 2020.1.3.

The left yaw associated with slipstream swirl impinging on the vertical stabilizer was all but negligible-very little rudder input was required to keep the plane straight down the runway;
and flight dynamics were good.

I'm not questioning your post; but rather expressing my opinion that something must be amiss in your particular installation to cause the problems you've experienced.

It would be helpful if you might describe your processor, graphics, operating system, and FlightGear version.

Kind Regards :)
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby Fritz » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:36 am

Inspired by this thread, I just tried the 172 for the first time (the Version that came with FG 2018.3.6), using a twist stick (Hotas-X). Basically the plane seems to work fine, except that I'm too small for the cockpit (I should be able to fix that) and that the ASI is not working (yes, the pitot cover was removed, but since the 172 is the main plane of FG 2018.3.6, it's probably an issue on my side, I didn't really do the checklist :oops: ). The HUD saved me...

I found that the plane reacts rather sensible, which made it a hard to control, especially during take-off. I almost managed to ran off the (very wide) runway at PHNL, not because the plane wanted to turn, but because even small inputs tended to be overreactions. Landing seemed to be a bit easier, but it still felt more like a RC plane than a real plane. Probably I'm flying too much DC-3 in FlightGear, but I've flown gliders in real life, and I've flown the ASK-13 and the DR 400 in FlightGear, and I heard from other real world pilots (slightly exaggerating of course) that the 172 is reacting like an oil tanker compared to a glider (or even a DR 400). This one doesn't...

In other words, maybe the problem is not "needing rudder" but "too sensible controls", which is made worse by the unexpected (from a beginners viewpoint) turning tendency.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby Thorsten » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:58 am

In other words, maybe the problem is not "needing rudder" but "too sensible controls"


But that's a user-side issue, it depends completely on what control HW you use and how it is calibrated.
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