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Cessna Citation II engine controls

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Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby fredsie » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:04 pm

Hi

Just discovered the Citation jet after many hours with the Cessna trainer and it's just great! I can just about manage a landing now but, maybe it's just me, I can find no way to shut off the engines after arrival. I thought maybe the ignition switches might be the answer but they just have an "on" and "normal" position, and in both settings the engines just keep spinning. Is there a way to shut engines down? Even just a keyboard method would be fine.
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby legoboyvdlp » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:12 pm

I think you might need to click the throttles? Don't quote me on that, but I have a faint recollection you need to move them to SHUTOFF from idle or something like that.
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby fredsie » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:19 pm

Ah, I hadn't used the onscreen throttles as I'm using a joystick with a throttle slider

Well both the throttles are at zero % according to the hover-over popups. I can get them to move upwards, but no further back. Both engines are still idling at 44.6%.
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby WoodSTokk » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:29 pm

Thanks for the compliment. I'm working hard to make the Citation better. Its nice to hear that someone are happy with it.

fredsie wrote in Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:19 pm:Ah, I hadn't used the onscreen throttles as I'm using a joystick with a throttle slider

Well both the throttles are at zero % according to the hover-over popups. I can get them to move upwards, but no further back. Both engines are still idling at 44.6%.

Have you start the engines by hand? At the start, you must pull the cutoff-locks and move the throttles forward.
If the IDLE position is reached, the cutoff-locks falls down and prevent you cut off the engines while flying.
To shot off the engines, you must pull up the cutoff-locks (ctrl-o) like you have done at engine start up.
If the hrottle slider on your joystick is in full back position, the throttle lever should glide backward.
Please report if it works, this code is from me and i dont have a joystick to test.

Ingnition:
ON means the ingition is allways on (normaly at take-off, aproach, in turbulenced air and heavy storm).
NORMAL means the ingition is normaly off, but can be automaticaly activated by the starter elecronic while engine start up.
This means also that you dont must activate the ingnition to start the engine, the starter do that for you.
A turbine isnt like a motor. If the fire is one time ingited inside a turbine, it is burning as long enough fuel is there.
To stop a turbine, you can only cutoff the fuel.
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby fredsie » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:02 am

WoodSTokk wrote in Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:29 pm:Thanks for the compliment. I'm working hard to make the Citation better. Its nice to hear that someone are happy with it.


You're welcome! It's good to have people like yourself giving your time free to create these projects.

WoodSTokk wrote in Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:29 pm:Have you start the engines by hand? At the start, you must pull the cutoff-locks and move the throttles forward.
If the IDLE position is reached, the cutoff-locks falls down and prevent you cut off the engines while flying.
To shot off the engines, you must pull up the cutoff-locks (ctrl-o) like you have done at engine start up.
If the throttle slider on your joystick is in full back position, the throttle lever should glide backward.
Please report if it works, this code is from me and i dont have a joystick to test.


Right. I wasn't aware of he cutoffs, or of Ctrl-o to disengage them (not sure where to find such information about control keys). So I can now shut down the engines! But I have to do this with the mouse on the levers - after Crtl-o the levers stay in the same place and it's not possible to close them off with the joystick slider.

Thanks also for the technical explanations. I hadn't really thought about how the jet turbines work; of course they don't need continuous ignition like a normal engine, so no amount of button-pressing is going to stop them! :-)
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby WoodSTokk » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:43 am

fredsie wrote in Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:02 am:Right. I wasn't aware of he cutoffs, or of Ctrl-o to disengage them (not sure where to find such information about control keys).

Ooops. Will add that in the Aircraft Help. Sorry.
fredsie wrote in Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:02 am:So I can now shut down the engines! But I have to do this with the mouse on the levers - after Crtl-o the levers stay in the same place and it's not possible to close them off with the joystick slider.

Hmmm, can you test please, if its work if you set your joystick slider to about 2% while unlocking the cutoffs and than pull back the slider?
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby fredsie » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:17 pm

WoodSTokk wrote in Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:43 am:Hmmm, can you test please, if its work if you set your joystick slider to about 2% while unlocking the cutoffs and than pull back the slider?


Sorry, no. It doesn't matter where the throttle slider is when you do Ctrl-o, it never drops below idle with the joystick lever (a Logitech Extreme 3D PRO).
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby WoodSTokk » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:48 pm

fredsie wrote in Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:17 pm:
WoodSTokk wrote in Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:43 am:Hmmm, can you test please, if its work if you set your joystick slider to about 2% while unlocking the cutoffs and than pull back the slider?


Sorry, no. It doesn't matter where the throttle slider is when you do Ctrl-o, it never drops below idle with the joystick lever (a Logitech Extreme 3D PRO).

Now, i need your help. Please open the property browser with running engines and go to 'controls/engines/engine/'.
What for values show the property 'throttle' if your slider is in full forward and full back position?
I presume that your slider never reach the absolut 0 position and moving back the lever behind IDLE will be activated at value 0.005 or below.
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby fredsie » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:25 am

OK. Here are the values.

Using joystick slider:
Normal:
cutoff - false
cutoff-lock = true

Slider high 1
Slider low 0
for (throttle, throttle-lever, and throttle-real)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After Ctrl-o :
cutoff = false
cutoff-lock = false
Slider high: 1
Slider low :
throttle 0.01
throttle-lever -0.02
throttle-real 0
(and throttle levers drop slightly)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After Crtl-o but using *mouse* on throttle levers:


cutoff = true
cutoff-lock = true
throttle 0.01
throttle-lever -0.02
throttle-real 0

but levers move right down to cut-off position and engines stop.
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby WoodSTokk » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:02 am

I pushed a update. New version is 4.1.19.
Cutoff should now also work with joystick.
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby fredsie » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:20 am

OK great!

I downloaded the original version using the inbuilt FG launcher. Will the latest version appear there? If so, I guess I have to uninstall and reinstall?
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby WoodSTokk » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:37 pm

fredsie wrote in Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:20 am:OK great!

I downloaded the original version using the inbuilt FG launcher. Will the latest version appear there? If so, I guess I have to uninstall and reinstall?

Dont know, because there was a changing on the download server and i dont find the new version there.
To see your version, open the Citation directory and open the file 'Citation-II-common.xml'. On line 34 you will find the version.
I have now downloaded via the launcher (FG 2018.2.2) and received version 4.1.15.
If you are familiar with svn, you can also download the latest version via svn.
The actual Citation II works from 2017.2 upward.
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby fredsie » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:31 pm

Yeah I have 4.1.15. I have no idea what svn is or where I can pick up 4.1.19, so I can't test the fix at present, sorry.
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Re: Cessna Citation II engine controls

Postby WoodSTokk » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:24 am

fredsie wrote in Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:31 pm:Yeah I have 4.1.15. I have no idea what svn is or where I can pick up 4.1.19, so I can't test the fix at present, sorry.

You can find my latest version under http://www.lepanto.at/download/flightgear/Citation.tar.gz (~18MB).

EDIT:
You can also go to https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fgaddon/HEAD/tree/trunk/Aircraft/Citation/ and klick on 'Download Snapshot'.
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