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Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby dilbert » Fri May 25, 2018 7:14 pm

Just attempted W090n40 scenery installation on AMD-8 laptop, which previously was only run using Terrasync and had an empty scenery file.

Scenery downloaded and program installed it in C:\Users\{name}\Documents\FlightGear\Scenery.

Program also automatically created following path in "additional scenery locations":
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery.

In other words, Flightgear 2018.1.1 installed the scenery in a 64 bit file, but created a 32 bit
path in "additional scenery add-ons".

Needless to say the scenery couldn't be accessed. :cry:

Somewhat different experience on my Intel I3 ( latest) machine, Scenery downloaded, but when I tried to use the install feature, FlightGear 2018.1.1
would only display several of about 15 files resident in my download file; and the resident scenery file did not display. So it could not be selected.
{both machines running current versions of WIN 10. Thought both current on updates, but perhaps not. Have no other explanation.) :?
Maybe it didn't like a 32 bit scenery file from the gitgo?

Guess that leaves a lot of wandering about with automatic scenery download on to complete the 090w40n scenery area, as I have only recorded
15 of about 90 sub-files using TerraSync, so far.

P.S. When tried scenery installation on old Celeron machine, got couldn't find file message;
whereupon program crashed, despite presence of downloaded file.
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby wkitty42 » Sat May 26, 2018 4:23 pm

dilbert wrote in Fri May 25, 2018 7:14 pm:In other words, Flightgear 2018.1.1 installed the scenery in a 64 bit file, but created a 32 bit
path in "additional scenery add-ons".

this doesn't make a lick of sense... only binary executables are 32bit or 64bit... data files and the directories where they are store have no such difference... in flightgear, both 32bit and 64bit flavors can access and use the exact same scenery files...

i suspect the archive you downloaded has a different directory structure in it and when the launcher extracted it to the Scenery directory, it missed something so the files do exist but they are simply not in the directory structure that FG is looking for...

what does the following give, please?
Code: Select all
dir /b/s/a:d C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/*


if the structure is not like the following, it won't work...
Code: Select all
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Terrain
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Terrain/w090n40
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Terrain/w090n40/w081n40
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Terrain/w090n40/w081n41
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Terrain/w090n40/w081n42
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Terrain/w090n40/w081n43
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Terrain/w090n40/w081n44
[...]
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Objects
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Objects/w090n40
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Objects/w090n40/w081n40
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Objects/w090n40/w081n41
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Objects/w090n40/w081n42
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Objects/w090n40/w081n43
C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery/Objects/w090n40/w081n44
[...]
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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R e: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby dilbert » Sat May 26, 2018 5:10 pm

Understand about files. Directory and path labels apparently are the problem. It seemed to me that a 32 bit path statement using "/" would not lead to a directory labeled in 64 bit terminology, i.e "\". But maybe I've got it wrong.
Last edited by dilbert on Sat May 26, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby wkitty42 » Sat May 26, 2018 5:16 pm

can't tell from here without seeing the output of that dir command ;)

where'd you get that scenery archive file from? james has done some work in the launcher's scenery installation code to try to catch certain variants of the archive formats... this might be something that he needs to know about, too...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby dilbert » Sat May 26, 2018 6:36 pm

2018.1.1 was downloaded from the official FG website and installed unaltered in three machines.
The Scenery file in all three is named "'C: \Users\{name}\Documents\FlightGear\Scenery".
Tried downloading and installing scenery on all three using the 2018.1.1 "Install downloaded scenery"
facility in addons.
Therefore, 2018.1.1 accessed the official FlightGear scenery archive.
Installation failed on two machines, as described above.
On the AMD-8 machine it succeeded in installing w090n40 in the
directory described above.
However, 2018.1.1 concurrently created a path in the "additional
scenery location" section of the add-on menu labeled "C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery", which seems to me
unworkable (2018.1.1 also prevented path alteration, and prevented creation of an alternative path using the "+" feature.).

Let me emphasize: all was accomplished using the
standard scenery downloading and installation facility in add-ons, and during the same 2018.1.1 run. Best Regards :)


P.S. All the path labels in the structure you provided above are delineated using "/"; whereas, the label of the directory containing the scenery is delineated using "\". Guess I'm computer dumb, but don't see how they would work either. :?

On the other hand, if the paths shown in your structure are correct, why didn't FlightGear 2018.1.1 install the scenery files in C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery, instead of C:\Users\{name}\Documents\FlightGear\Scenery, as it actually did?
Well, the answer to that one is clear: a "C:/Users" directory is non-existent in Windows 10,

Bottom line: the "C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery" path, which FlightGear 2018.1.1 has automatically written and displayed
in the "additional scenery locations" menu of the add-on section of the launcher, points to a non-existent location. :!:
Last edited by dilbert on Sun May 27, 2018 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby wkitty42 » Sun May 27, 2018 9:29 am

dilbert wrote in Sat May 26, 2018 6:36 pm:2018.1.1 was downloaded from the official FG website and installed unaltered in three machines.
The Scenery file in all three is named "'C: \Users\{name}\Documents\FlightGear\Scenery".

that's a directory (aka folder)... not a file...

dilbert wrote in Sat May 26, 2018 6:36 pm:Tried downloading and installing scenery on all three using the 2018.1.1 "Install downloaded scenery"
facility in addons.
Therefore, 2018.1.1 accessed the official FlightGear scenery archive.

ok... so you used the function in the launcher...

dilbert wrote in Sat May 26, 2018 6:36 pm:Installation failed on two machines, as described above.
On the AMD-8 machine it succeeded in installing w090n40 in the
directory described above.

maybe this is where some confusion is coming from? multiple reports in one post/topic? i'll have to try to reread the topic and see if i can discern some difference... there should not be any, though, since all systems are using the same 2018.1.1 and i'm assuming they are all using the same OS with all the same updates and fixes applied??

dilbert wrote in Sat May 26, 2018 6:36 pm:However, 2018.1.1 concurrently created a path in the "additional
scenery location" section of the add-on menu labeled "C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery", which seems to me
unworkable (2018.1.1 also prevented path alteration, and prevented creation of an alternative path using the "+" feature.).

ummm... you cannot change paths that are already in the list... you can only add or delete them...
the "+" option to add paths does not allow for creating a new empty path... it only allows you to choose an existing one...
in your use case and procedures for installing this scenery, there should not be any reason for you to be trying to add or delete paths...

dilbert wrote in Sat May 26, 2018 6:36 pm:Let me emphasize: all was accomplished using the
standard scenery downloading and installation facility in add-ons, and during the same 2018.1.1 run. Best Regards :)

ok, so as noted above, you are doing the selection, download and install all from within the launcher? you're not doing anything manually like going to a web site and downloading a file which you're asking FG to install?

dilbert wrote in Sat May 26, 2018 6:36 pm:P.S. All the path labels in the structure you provided above are delineated using "/"; whereas, the label of the directory containing the scenery is delineated using "\". Guess I'm computer dumb, but don't see how they would work either. :?

i used what you posted since i copied your line...
many programs that are written cross-platform will recognize either "/" or "\" in their fields and the code will use the proper one for the OS when it comes time to write to the storage device...

dilbert wrote in Sat May 26, 2018 6:36 pm:On the other hand, if the paths shown in your structure are correct, why didn't FlightGear 2018.1.1 install the scenery files in C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery, instead of C:\Users\{name}\Documents\FlightGear\Scenery, as it actually did?


C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery
C:\Users\{name}\Documents\FlightGear\Scenery

those paths are the same... only the path delimiter is different... so no difference...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby dilbert » Sun May 27, 2018 9:49 am

Everything was done within the launcher.
I thought perhaps that the different delimiter in the path statement might be a problem with C:/Users being a non-existent directory.
From my very limited experience, it would have seemed so in Windows... Apparently not.
As far as writing in an alternative path is concerned, tried adding one using "\" delimiters , by clicking on "+", but program displayed
FlightGear 18.1.1>bin for "Select folder".
Apologize for my lack of coding expertise.
Thank you for the edification on delimiters and kind assistance.
Best Regards
Last edited by dilbert on Sun May 27, 2018 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby wkitty42 » Sun May 27, 2018 10:24 am

dilbert wrote in Sun May 27, 2018 9:49 am:As far as writing in an alternative path is concerned, tried adding one using "\" delimiters , by clicking on "+", but nothing happened.

right... you cannot type one... you have to select one that's already created...

you're welcome for whatever assistance i can provide :)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby dilbert » Sun May 27, 2018 10:50 am

Just now tried to add an alternative path to the "additional scenery menu", using "+".

"Choose Scenery Folder" only permits C:\Program Files\FlightGear 2018.1.1>bin and C;\Program Files\2018.1.1 as directories for folder sourcing.

Since the scenery resides in C:\Users\.... rather than C"\Program Files...., no path is available for selection. :?

Regarding other machines: thought it significant I couldn't get downloaded scenery working on any of them; also, with regard to the I-3 machine: I couldn't install the scenery from my Download file for the peculiar reason that when the install routine in the program was employed, and the Download directory selected, only a few of the downloaded files displayed; and the 090w40n scenery file was not among them. As a result, 090w40n could not be selected for installation (even though it actually resided in the file).

It was my thought that this problem and the one on the A8 machine might be somehow related.
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby wkitty42 » Sun May 27, 2018 2:02 pm

dilbert wrote in Sun May 27, 2018 10:50 am:Just now tried to add an alternative path to the "additional scenery menu", using "+".

"Choose Scenery Folder" only permits C:\Program Files\FlightGear 2018.1.1>bin and C;\Program Files\2018.1.1 as directories for folder sourcing.

no it doesn't... it is defaulting to the "current" directory... use the other icons shown or even the drop box to select the "C:\" or even "C:\Users" directory... then you can walk into your desired directory... maybe even try typing into the "Directory" field?

Image

dilbert wrote in Sun May 27, 2018 10:50 am:Regarding other machines: thought it significant I couldn't get downloaded scenery working on any of them; also, with regard to the I-3 machine: I couldn't install the scenery from my Download file for the peculiar reason that when the install routine in the program was employed, and the Download directory selected, only a few of the downloaded files displayed; and the 090w40n scenery file was not among them. As a result, 090w40n could not be selected for installation (even though it actually resided in the file).

please try to use the correct terms... you seem to be mixing "directory" and "file" at times... they are not the same and are treated quite differently... i think you are saying the following...

----->8 snip 8<-----
i couldn't install the scenery from my Download directory [...]
----->8 snip 8<-----

since the scenery archive names start with 'e' and 'w', i would expect them to be in alphabetical order starting with the 'e' one first and then way down near the bottom the 'w' ones...

i'm running your scenario right now... here are the steps i'm following... they are being performed as they are written in this post...
  1. start the sim with the launcher.
  2. go to addons.
  3. select the [Install add-on scenery] button.
  4. read the pop-up screen and click the "Click here to download scenery" link.
  5. find and click on the w090n40 square in the grid.
  6. save the w090n40.zip file to my "Downloads/flightgear/scenery/test" directory.

      note that the w090n40.zip file is 546Meg in size so it takes a few minutes to download.
      if the downloaded file is not complete (partial download), it may not show up in the list
      of available files to install if the launcher's installer validates the files first to make sure
      they are complete.
  7. when the download is complete, close that browser window.
  8. now we're back on the pop-up screen from step 4 where i clicked the [Next] button.
  9. i navigated to my "Downloads/flightgear/scenery/test" directory.
  10. found a bug which has been reported - i had to type in the name of the file because the file mask did not allow for *.zip files... only *.tar, *.gz and *.tgz...

here i have to stop because it doesn't like the zip file... probably because i had to type its name and it wasn't coded to find it as a *.zip.

i did try with another scenery file i already had downloaded, w070n30.tar.gz... the launcher properly extracted and installed it to my ~/.fgfs/Scenery directory it created since it did not already exist. then we found another bug in that that scenery directory was added to the scenery addons directory list again... this has also been reported...

dilbert wrote in Sun May 27, 2018 10:50 am:It was my thought that this problem and the one on the A8 machine might be somehow related.

it is possible that they are... depending on what you are doing...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby dilbert » Sun May 27, 2018 3:16 pm

Thank you for your patience and help. Sorry, in haste, carelessly mislabeled a directory as a file-do know better. Will try using the icons as you suggested.

My primary interest is flight simulation-not sight seeing. In earlier days installed scenery using
fgadmin. Long since and through many system upgrades came to depend on Terrasync
alone. Only recently realized my established Terrasync files lacked a complete inventory of sub-files; which is why I tried downloading a scenery area from the archive, and as a newby to this
function, ran into trouble.
Thanks once again for the help and best regards. :)
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby wkitty42 » Sun May 27, 2018 4:14 pm

dilbert wrote in Sun May 27, 2018 3:16 pm:In earlier days installed scenery using fgadmin.

as i understand it, the launcher's scenery installation capabilities are meant to replace the old defunct fgadmin tool ;)

dilbert wrote in Sun May 27, 2018 3:16 pm:Long since and through many system upgrades came to depend on Terrasync alone. Only recently realized my established Terrasync files lacked a complete inventory of sub-files; which is why I tried downloading a scenery area from the archive,

the new format of terrasync utilizes checksum files so files that are new, changed or removed will be added/updated/removed automatically... the old problems with using SVN are no more since SVN is not used at all any more... if a file's checksum doesn't match what it is in the checksum files and/or those don't match what is one the server(s), the files will be downloaded again and the new checksum calculated... these checksums are validated against the scenery server(s) so what is on the server(s) should be exactly what you have on your machine... this is also why you do not want to place other files into the FG managed directories... especially scenery and objects... FG can and will remove them since they do not also exist on the scenery server(s)...

dilbert wrote in Sun May 27, 2018 3:16 pm:and as a newby to this function, ran into trouble.

if you have all of your scenery in one place, you might use an external tool if you don't want to use Terrasync built-in... there's a terrasync.py python script that does a great job... i use it here all the time... the main thing is not just having the files and having FG recognize them but to have them all in the same directory as far as terrasync goes... i don't know if winwhatever does like the linux flavor and places the terrasync files in the hidden data directory or not...

on linux: ~/.fgfs/TerraSync
on windows: C: \Users\{name}\AppData\FlightGear.org\TerraSync

i don't know... if the terrasync files are placed in a C: \Users\{name}\Documents\FlightGear\TerraSync directory, that makes things easier in a way... mainly because you don't have to mess about with that hidden %appdata% directory... where ever your terrasync files are, it is likely NOT the same directory where these installable scenery files are going... when i ran my test above, the installed scenery files ended up in ~/.fgfs/Scenery and NOT in ~/.fgfs/TerraSync where the terrasync files are normally placed...

another thing is that FG blends scenery together instead of overriding it like the craft do... that means if you have a custom w090n40 tile as well as the official one manually downloaded and installed or a terrasync'ed one, you might see some objects duplicated or possibly even run into the problem where the land surface is different and noticeable...

i understand that you are trying to ensure that you have all of the data for the tiles you have in your terrasync... the best way to do that would be to just keep using terrasync or one of the newer tools like terrasync.py or even terramaster... the python script is command line driven... terramaster is a java program and graphical... all three use the same checksum files from the same servers for the same scenery files...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby dilbert » Sun May 27, 2018 5:33 pm

Thank you for the good suggestions. Best Regards
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby dilbert » Mon May 28, 2018 4:25 am

Reran flight from Des Moines where scenery failed, and immediately checked log.

Appeared as if program searched existing Terrasync file (based on number of tiles), and immediately defaulted to ocean tiles without having ever searched Scenery file (which would have comprised a second search with many more tiles).

Scenery Init Statement in log:
fg_init. cxx:741:terrasync_dir="C/Users/{name}/Documents/TerraSync"

Also had a scenery path init statement: fg_init cxx:744:scenery_search paths=

C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/Scenery

C:/Users/{name}/Documents/FlightGear/TerraSync

Totally out of my league here.

But is it conceivable that there should have been a log statement before cxx:741 , something like:

fg_init cxx:{number};Scenery_dir="C:\Users\Documents\FlightGear\Scenery"

absence of which might reflect why Scenery search wasn't performed :?:

(The only immediately prior init statements were for "aircraft_dir" , fghome_dir", and "download_dir")
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Re: Scenery Paths for 2018.1.1

Postby wkitty42 » Mon May 28, 2018 4:42 pm

no, the scenery search paths statement is that...

there is no one scenery directory... you can have many... for example, there are a lot of custom scenery packs... some folks will put each one into its own directory and point FG to it... so they end up with a large list of scenery directories... they could just put them all in one directory and point to that one but that kinda leads to a management problem because now you don't know what scenery is in that one since they're all together...

up near the top of your log, you should also find a statement about which scenery server you are using... it may be that that server is out of sync with the master server... if you can find those related lines, we can check that server and see if it is up to date...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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