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Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Controlling your aircraft, using the autopilot etc.

See the post for the different issues

Issue 1
13
12%
Issue 2
2
2%
Issue 3
3
3%
Issue 4
2
2%
Issue 5
4
4%
Issue 6
11
10%
Issue 7
10
9%
Issue 8
2
2%
Conclusion 1
11
10%
Conclusion 2
10
9%
Conclusion 3
6
5%
Tool 1
22
20%
Tool 2
8
7%
Tool 3
4
4%
Tool 4
4
4%
 
Total votes : 112

Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Necolatis » Wed May 17, 2017 10:05 pm

People I fly with, and myself, frequently run into all kinds of issues with Terrasync.
This poll is too see if we are alone in that, I am wondering if it just works fine for the rest of you.
If not, I will probably post something on mailing list, and ask if they can help us debug.

Please do not vote if you are using a FG older than 2017.1.3
Also please do not vote on issues if you haven't tried to fix them the usual ways; deleting terrasync folder, deleting $FGHOME

Issue 1
Terrasync consistently takes many many minutes to load, even on a fast connection.

Issue 2:
Terrasync does seem to load something, but I start up in water.

Issue 3:
Terrasync seems not to load anything and I start up in water.

Issue 4:
Terrasync never finishes, even though connection is fast.

Issue 5:
When I fly sometimes the elevation of terrain is loaded by terrasync, as I can crash into terrain, but cannot see it.
(Might load up eventually though)

Issue 6:
When starting flightgear a place I already have download terrain for, terrasync still loads alot (/take a long time).

Issue 7:
When flying, terrasync doesn't consistently load all tiles, in a reasonable time anyway.

Issue 8:
Other: Write about it in a reply.

Conclusion 1:
Terrasync works perfect.

Conclusion 2:
The issues I have comes and goes, sometimes it works perfect.

Conclusion 3:
I have issues with it all the time.

Tool 1:
I use Terrasync.

Tool 2:
I use TerraMaster.

Tool 3:
I use TerraGit.

Tool 4:
Offline: I download/buy my scenery or only fly around default airport.
Or use custom scenery.

Please take this post in the spirit I wrote it, I am not trying to bash on Terrasync, just trying to get an overview how prevalent issues are.

PS. You can change vote and vote for multiple items.
Last edited by Necolatis on Wed May 17, 2017 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync works?

Postby Necolatis » Wed May 17, 2017 10:08 pm

I have more than 1 PC on my LAN, and one is a really fast gaming rig, on that Terrasync pretty much works perfect and all the time. On my slower machine, I have half the issues in the poll above. I still endure the pain though and use it. Have same problems after reinstalling fresh windows 10 and in latest FG build. 2.2 GHz AMD machine.

I voted for Issue 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby PINTO » Thu May 18, 2017 12:00 am

I've pretty much given up on terrasync. The download times are consistently terrible (single digit kb/s at best, usually closer to half a kb, on 2017.1.3, and it's not my internet connection) and it never loads scenery in time as I fly over. I hated not knowing if I was going to be able to land at my destination after spending 4 hours flying there because terrasync crapped out again. And it would fail to load scenery I know I had.
Completely disabled terrasync and am using terramaster to get my scenery and it works flawlessly.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Wecsje » Thu May 18, 2017 6:07 am

Terrasync can be usefull, but has loading times that take years, and therefore in flight, not enough scenery is loaded... (and this is on high settings with a high end gaming rig). As PINTO already said, the download speed is too slow. I'm now using terraGIT, and it all loads in wonferfully. I was even able to download the whole entire world within 1 night (!). Something terrasync would not be able to do. As an addition, the terraGIT scenery has nicer scenery, as it is the GIT for scenery.

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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby sanhozay » Thu May 18, 2017 7:59 am

I voted that Terrasync works perfectly. Perfection is hard to achieve and I mean it works almost all of the time. It does occasionally have problems but these are increasingly rare, and I don't think I've had one since Torsten's DNS timeout fix that went in earlier this year.

I sometimes see other transient scenery loading issues that are clearly not Terrasync related. I have the scenery downloaded but tiles sometimes unload and reload when switching views, especially to and from fly-by view.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby StuartC » Thu May 18, 2017 8:11 am

Gave up with terrasync in the 2016 versions. takes a good 10 min to load an airports or tile and I have a 45mb download. Flying slow aircraft at low altitude, you probably might get away with it. Fly anything fast and the scenery download just doesn't keep up. I use terramaster now to pre download my scenery. On 2017.1.3 the slowness still exists.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Thorsten » Thu May 18, 2017 9:10 am

I'm frankly not sure everyone knows how the internet works.

Terrasync used online needs to manage the transfer of a sizable data volume and a lot of files during a fixed time.

The time it takes to transfer is determined by:

1) at what rate can the server feed the required data into the internet?
2) at what rate can the WWW infrastructure transfer the data from the server to your local internet provider?
3) at what rate can your internet provider feed data to your computer?

3) is usually what you know as 'your internet speed' - but it's the lowest of the three which determine what transfer rate you get.

1) is determined by server connection speed as well as demand - if the server has to cater to multiple clients, every client gets a fraction of the transfer rate.

2) is determined by where you are in relation to the server - even sitting on a 10 Mbit connection years ago before all the streaming became popular and the WWW was less clogged with cat videos than it is now, I never got to see this rate if I had to go through a transatlantic cable - which is why whoever is closer to the server (which I believe is in Germany) has an edge over those far away.

3) is determined by whatever your provider offers you, in addition to whatever other applications in your household demand - if your wife is currently upgrading her OS, your bandwidth is gone. Likewise, if your whole neighborhood is watching video streams, your bandwidth is gone.

So if you are far from the server, it doesn't matter that you have a 10 MBit data rate guaranteed from your provider - the trans-oceanic cable might still limit you to 50 kbit.

Now, the rate which is the lowest of the three has to be compared with what you need.

That's determined by

a) how fast are you going
b) what's the visibility
c) what amount of details do you need

Getting a 20 mile strip around you at 100 kt is a fraction of the data rate of going 400 kt and requiring 120 miles visibility - the latter needs 24 x higher data rate.

Now, buildings (especially the new OSM structures) are going to be especially expensive, because they are plenty of new files, so for every new file you need metadata exchange - 'server, I want this file' - 'client, be prepared to receive this file' - and this depends on your ping time - so while I can readily download terrain mesh at 1 Mbit/s, OSM structures come at 150 kbit - with the same connection at the same time of the day - I can watch the system monitor and immediately see what TerraMaster is fetching.

So by and large, FG can't do anything to speed up your internet connection. And if you're wondering why YouTube is so fast, I'm guessing they have a lot of mirrors all over the world so that the distance to the nearest server is never large.

If you really want faster TerraSync, donate infrastructure and host a mirror of the server. That'll speed it up for everyone close by.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Catalanoic » Thu May 18, 2017 10:17 am

Useful info Thorsten. TerraSync works perfect for me, maybe because i'm in Germany right now and i have a relative nice connection, but i don't know if the people in Australia got same experience. We're touching OSM buildings and greater hardware infraestructure would be needed. Despite these minor problems unrelated to the simulator itself, the only critics of the system (don't just me) have to do with old airport layouts and terrain, but i think its just a matter of time to resolve that.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Thorsten » Thu May 18, 2017 11:52 am

Despite these minor problems unrelated to the simulator itself, the only critics of the system (don't just me) have to do with old airport layouts and terrain,


That would presumably be resolved faster if people would make a push to consistently update the TS content rather than fill their own external repo.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby PINTO » Thu May 18, 2017 2:49 pm

Thanks for your... enlightening... post, Thorsten, but my speed to the server is not the issue. Downloading it outside of the Terrasync automatic download, like using Terramaster or get the tile direct from the server, is 100-1000 times faster.

In fact, terrasync used to (6 months ago) download at 2-3 mb/s which is fine. Now it downloads at 500 b/s (not a typo) on average, with slow downs to single digit bytes per second. I'd be happy with a kb/s or two.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Thorsten » Thu May 18, 2017 3:10 pm

Thanks for your... enlightening... post, Thorsten, but my speed to the server is not the issue.


I'm sure you have a good explanation how FG's use of a standard http library which moreover hasn't really changed in the last six months can slow you down personally and keep me up to speed, but alas, stubborn as I am I believe that you're seeing other factors at play.

I typically get a few bit/s in TS for scenery that's already there (TS is just confirming whether it needs to update or not, so there's just a few metadata handshakes).
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Lydiot » Fri May 19, 2017 12:33 am

Thorsten wrote in Thu May 18, 2017 9:10 am:I'm frankly not sure everyone knows how the internet works.


I'm frankly not sure what to make of your attitude.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Thorsten » Fri May 19, 2017 4:57 am

I'm frankly not sure what to make of your attitude.


Sorry, what attitude?

Do you honestly believe that *every* forum user is familiar with how the internet works internally? Do you think everyone knows what factors determine connection speed, why YouTube is fast and SourceForge is slow? Why a single file downloads fast and many small ones slowly? Or why else do you think it is somehow a problem to explain things which may not be known to everyone?

As long as I get to read forum posts containing assumptions that download speed is a function of CPU speed, I'm going to see the need for explanations, and if you feel offended by me explaining something in a public thread because the explanation happens to be something you already understand, the problem is with your attitude, not mine.

Whoever believes knows how it all works should go fix whatever problem he's seeing and not complain, - it's as simple as that.
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Lydiot » Fri May 19, 2017 2:50 pm

- If two computers on the same network load/use scenery at different speeds consistently, and both have gigabit ethernet to the router, what explains the difference?

- Does terramaster pull scenery from the same location as terrasync? If so, why is there a difference?
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Re: Poll: Terrasync (dynamic loading of terrain) works?

Postby Octal450 » Fri May 19, 2017 3:01 pm

I stopped using it because it took too long, and the scenery wasn't always working.
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