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Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

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Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby N5818 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:51 am

Hi all,

I'm back with YET ANOTHER QUESTION!

The DC-3 C-47: I'm having trouble with the Dual Control. The MP-copilot cannot see the cockpit, but can see the aircraft in general. If they cannot see the cockpit, they cannot be of much help, can they?

How can I make it so that they can see the cockpit? What's broken?

Yes, I've selected them as a copilot, yes I'm using the YAsim version (because the copilot is a YAsim FDM).
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby AndersG » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:05 am

The copilot uses the NULL FDM - it has no physics simulation. Try the JSBSim variant of the main aircraft.
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby N5818 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:47 pm

I tried that and it didn't work. :(
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby sim » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:31 pm

Seems from your description as if the co-pilot has gone walkabout! :D
The co-pilot view may need xyz coordinates tweaking to give you the view from right hand seat.
In theory the pilot could move to the co-pilot seat by adjusting just the x-offset value. :shock:
In practice all xyz values may change. You could go to adjust view in the GUI starting from
the captain's view and adjust xy and z until you've set the co-pilot view. Then write down
all three values and apply them to the co-pilot view in the FDM. :wink:
OR you could set up that co-pilot view on your joystick and select it when required.
(Bit like the viewpoint in this video looking ahead from between pilot seats) . 8)

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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby N5818 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:53 am

When the copilot connects, they can change the view to the copilot view, but where there should be gauges there are none. I don't believe the copilot is in the wrong place (I think they just can't see the gauges) but maybe I'm wrong.
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby sim » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:57 pm

Some FG planes do have blank co-pilot instrument panel but the PAF C47 definitely has co-pilot instruments.
They're there in my video! Mystery why C47 co-pilot can't see them. He will just have to share the captain's seat
until whoever took his instruments, puts 'em back! :shock:
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby N5818 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:03 pm

He can't see the cockpit at all. No copilot, no pilot, nothing. They cannot see the cockpit whatsoever. They can see the external of the plane, but not anything in the cockpit at all.

Thanks for your continued help!
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby jaxsin » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:53 pm

Yep, I can verify we have tried this before. What I would assume should be a usable cockpit from the co-pilot seat you can't actually do anything because nothing is visible to use.

N5818 - are you still having the issue with 3.4 as well as 3.6?
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby N5818 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:58 pm

It happens in both. Thanks!
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby sim » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:01 pm

C47 YAsim co-pilot view no problem found. Press of keyboard "v" at beginning of video. Gui pop-up changes from Passenger view to Co-pilot view. Douglas DC-3 downloaded from PAF Hangar (file size 139Mb)
OS-X el Capitan maybe? Works ok in Windows. :wink:
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby jaxsin » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:52 am

sim wrote in Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:01 pm:C47 YAsim co-pilot view no problem found. Press of keyboard "v" at beginning of video. Gui pop-up changes from Passenger view to Co-pilot view. Douglas DC-3 downloaded from PAF Hangar (file size 139Mb)
OS-X el Capitan maybe? Works ok in Windows. :wink:


This is not the problem we are experiencing. This only has to do with multiplayer and the co-pilot seat when you are joining as a multiplayer co-pilot.

If we are to believe that in multiplayer as a co-pilot you should be allowed to fly the same plane as the pilot then we here to say that is not possible as the above issue arises.


Steps to reproduce
1. any stable release of FG
2. Load the JBSim model of the DC-3
3. have someone else login as multiplayer and select them as co-pilot.
4. have the co-pilot check his co-pilot cockpit view
5. BROKEN!
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby sim » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:07 pm

That's aweful! So 'tis MP not giving your chosen co-pilot what he needs to fly. :oops:
Having opposite problem. Am in co-pilot seat, having a job to fly the thing and captain was supposed to be here but isn't! :shock:

Maybe your MP co-pilot view needs fixing in one of the FDM files.
Does your MP co-pilot have a joystick and could he operate the controls if he were able to fix the view ?
Sounds like your MP co-pilot is simply unable to do anything to make you aware of his presence during your MP session? :roll:
The view is secondary. If co-pilot is able to waggle controls, at least something's working! :wink:
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby N5818 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:06 am

Hi there,

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, the copilot can move the yoke with his joystick, but unfortunately that does nothing if he cannot see the cockpit (he can see the outside of the plane and he can see the sky, but I want the copilot to be able to function as a f/o, and if he cannot see the controls, he cannot do that. :(

Thanks!
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Re: Douglas DC-3 C-47 Skytrain Dual Control?

Postby sim » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:32 pm

No apologies needed N5818, other duties often delay my replies too.
To be sure it's not a problem with your co-pilot, suggest you need to invite a few more MP fliers along, to see if they too report the same problem. Also note Pilot and copilot need to be connected on the same server,
Useful if co-pilots can post screenshots of the limited view they do have and indeed if they all see the same thing!

If other co-pilots report the same problem view and they can waggle controls but can't adjust that problem view at all, we'll have to delve into the FDM and see where that view is coming from! :wink:

Ou peut-être envoyer ce problème à nos amis à la PAF? :)

DISCUSSION AT PAF http://equipe-flightgear.forumactif.com/t1288-probleme-avec-co-pilote-paf-dc3-c47#23607


Patten - I have a medium confidence with Google translate, especially for things "technical"
which moreover are not in my area of expertise.
From what I remember, everything worked in the PAF tests (very very nice, up to 6 people on the plane)
http://equipe-flightgear.forumactif.com ... neur#10276
Memory:
It is imperative to be on the same server, and of course the pilot must select his MP-copilot).
Both must be in an area near the airport and even the same runway is a plus.
It's going to be difficult to reproduce the problems in an attempt to solve it.
I hope plane is not from the FG version of the DC3 as it's a little dated.
Is the concern is the same with the CAP10 B ?.
Fly4Fun, thank you to try to give us more details
Regarding the lag with the co-pilot, it does not matter. The role of co-pilot is not to hold the controls, he will instead handle the radio, why not gas and RPM, the engine demarage. So these actions do not require an immediate reaction of the aircraft. Lag is less important to the magneto than lag handling the flying controls!
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